During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Agreed. Having moments where their Played for Laughs isn't an immediate disqualifying factor so long as their heinous actions are treated seriously.
I already stated that I'm abstaining since I haven't seen the show
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jan 24th 2019 at 6:49:13 AM
This dude was the guy that was approved, right?
- I wasnt carefull enough on the deep web
(sic): Culture 045 is a ruthless, murderous pedophile who recounts his horrific deeds on the Deep Web site "All The Gore". He is introduced by recalling how he broke into an innocent family's house, killing the mother and father, and abducting their 8-10 year old daughter who he proceeded to torture and rape for an unknown period of time before brutally killing her, even posting photos of the act. After John threatens to call the police and have the site shut down, Culture 045 sets his sights on John and attempts to kill him twice. After John survives both encounters, Culture 045, still determined to ruin John's life, forces him to watch a livestream of a preteen boy being killed on camera. Culture 045 then sends the livestream to all of John's friends and family, making it appear that John was the one who sent the livestream, turning all of them against John. Even after he and three other accomplices are arrested, John wonders how many madmen like Culture 045 lurk in the world.
Having greatly enjoyed the series, I think I'm going to have to abstain. Paragon is nasty certainly, but I'm not sure if he's enough to stand out.
El Ray is a tyrannical Sorcerous Overlord who's devoured every single other magic user in the world (and the reason Toth's people are slowly dying out), as well as the reason the Nowhere is a desert wasteland. Condemning everyone to intense struggles and poverty.
Governor Toro is a bloodthirsty psycho, who openly declares he won't get out of bed for a death count less than Thirty and proudly boasts about his "Killoseum".
And that's not going into the three other Governors we haven't met yet, but by all reports are just as bad.
Now granted they all have way more power than Paragon (both magically and politically), but I'm just not sure if Paragon does enough to stand out.
Having seen Nomad of Nowhere, I'm gonna have to vote no on Don Paragon on the simple grounds that he's really not played all that seriously. He is the butt of a lot of jokes. The last couple of episodes have him ask the Nomad what outfit he should where to his party, get mad when the Nomad escapes only to thank the guards when they alert him his flowers are being trampled, two guards remark that his spanish pronunciation is poor and disrespectful, and to top it off a big joke is made of the fact that he is secretly balding.
Furthermore, no one on the story really takes him all that seriously. He's seen as a Sissy Villain that can barely accomplish anything of note, and his only accomplishments come from sheer luck on the part of his subordinates. His most outwardly heinous action of seemingly letting the Y'dala go extinct comes across as more willful ignorance that outright maliciousness. All in all, he comes across as being less menacing that some on the one shot villains in the show.
Honestly, I suggest that those on the fence go watch the last two episodes of season 1 (11 and 12) to get what I'm saying. Looking at Nomad of Nowhere will also give you an idea.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Jan 24th 2019 at 4:35:11 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Gonna officially make my vote a
for Paragon. While he does kill, maim, and extort, he's obviously played as a semi-incompetent loser that fails to live up to the power or heinousness of the other villains (Hell, Toro says that he "doesn't get out of bed for a body count less than thirty", so that gives you an idea of what the Heinous Standard looks like).
Okay. Just finished watching Under Siege.
Yeah, this whole "Krill is too wacky to be a CM!" thing—I'm not buying it. Okay, yes, he dresses up in drag and dances around like a fool in a party. This was done in a lighthearted scene where everyone on the ship was partying. The very next scene—and I do mean the very next one—Krill murders the Captain. This isn't Played for Laughs. The whole "do I look like I need a psychological evaluation?" scene is also funny, but at the time, nothing super serious is happening. After this scene ends? Nothing Krill does is Played for Laughs. It's really hard for me to say that Krill can't count as a CM because of two comedic scenes he was in.
I literally just got done watching Season 2 of iZombie yesterday and Vaughn DuClark is a ridiculous goofball who at one point, dances alongside a small robot toy. This is just one of several wacky things this walking manchild does in the show. This same guy also let his daughter get turned into a zombie and had innocent people who criticized his company online murdered, amongst other things. He's still a CM, and he's always gonna be. So, on that note, let's look at Krill. This guy pulled a mutiny, personally murdered his captain, helped Strannix take over the ship, tried to drown dozens of his own sailors, tried to sell nuclear missiles, and didn't try to stop Strannix from bombing Hawaii—if anything, he was thrilled when he found out Strannix was gonna do that.
William Strannix does even less humorous stuff than Krill does. My problem with him is his Freudian Excuse. He worked in a Special Forces unit for the CIA under some slimy government bureaucrat. Six months before the movie began, his own employers tried to kill him after they cancelled some operation he was supposed to be a part of—more than likely so the American government could erase any loose ends and because they felt like Strannix was becoming unhinged. He's a Foil to Casey Ryback; both of them worked for Special Forces. Both of them were screwed over by their employers in charge; Strannix is what Ryback could've turned into if he went crazy and decided to strike back against the government. There's even a point at the end where Ryback asks Strannix "what made you flip like this?" Strannix's reply?
"I got tired of coming up with last minute desperate solutions to impossible problems created by other fucking people."
All that being said? Guy tried to blow up Honolulu and got dozens of sailors and Navy SEAL team personnel killed. It's a tiny bit hard to overlook that, even with his Freudian Excuse.
Bottom line? Don't judge Strannix and Krill because "oh they were involved in one funny scene; they don't count." Judge Krill by whether or not his misdeeds make him count for a standard "Die Hard" on an X movie. And judge Strannix based on whether or not his Freudian Excuse has enough weight behind it and whether or not he truly went insane.
I'm fine giving Krill a slight
.
But I'm gonna abstain on Strannix.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Okay, now I can give Krill a
.
Still have to abstain on Strannix however
Edited by G-Editor on Jan 24th 2019 at 3:46:28 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff

I think something to note is that regarding the more "comedic" C Ms, like DCAU!Joker, said comedy moments are usually independent of their crimes, and thus the humor tends to vanish once the CM in question is actively engaging in villainy.
Joker getting beaten up by Harley is Played for Laughs. Him physically and psychologically torturing Tim Drake for weeks on end, or tossing Harley out a window to her near-death, though?
Dag getting swung out with a golf-club in a slapstick manner in the end? Played for Laughs. Him trying to kill the chicken coop and having Otis' father mauled to death? Comedy vanishes.
There are plenty of examples of C Ms being used for humorous purposes. But they usually keep the humorous moments and their villainous moments separate.
Why so serious?