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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#145702: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:50:59 PM

@Lighty: Could you shed some light on the Under Sedge duo for us?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#145703: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:55:40 PM

Yeah, I plan to rewatch it this weekend.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#145704: Jan 24th 2019 at 12:56:54 PM

Thanks for clarifying.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#145705: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:09:09 PM

Did a bit of Research. The film is an Action/Thriller. It sounds like, from the page it's a case where the villains funny moments are out of a dark sense of humour and Evil Is Hammy tropes. And from what I've seen that's HARDLY a mitigating factor given we have Alan Rickmans Shariff Nottingham or The Terror from the tick. And neither of those were even Thrillers.(The tick was an outright action\Comedy) So...for the time being [tup] to the under siege candidates.

Edited by Kylotrope on Jan 24th 2019 at 1:19:33 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
color2wheel Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#145707: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:15:53 PM

Guys I own Under Siege. I can just watch the DVD tonight if it's really causing this much debating.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#145708: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:17:51 PM

Do so at your own time.

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#145709: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:18:04 PM

Complete Monster is not mutually exclusive with Laughably Evil or Evil Is Hammy. Otherwise, we may as well cut Xykon, the Joker, and Bill Cipher.

Help me!
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#145710: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:22:29 PM

But the humor has to go hand-in-hand with their actions. If you have someone like say a dictator laughing maniacally as he watches a city getting toppled with brushing his teeth and then nearly choking to death, then that clearly works against him from counting.

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#145711: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:25:21 PM

What if we had a warlord watching innocent people get slaughtered and enjoying it while asking for popcorn and drinking from cans attached to his hat?

Help me!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#145712: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:37:52 PM

Then we'd question the seriousness, simple.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#145713: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:40:48 PM

At the least, I’m keeping my Yes on Krill and my yes on Strannix remains for now. Could someone give me a count please?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#145714: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:45:50 PM

Thing with Joker, et al, is while they may be funny, they're played dead seriously in the story itself. In fact, in some cases, the contrast actually makes them scarier.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#145715: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:01:24 PM

Yeah while a CM can be funny at times, their actions must be treated completely seriously in the story and there is a limit to how much humorous moments a villain can have until they too Played for Laughs to be taken seriously.

For example TDK! Joker making a pencil "disappear" by impaling it through a goon's eye is very realistically disturbing to see, even if some might find it funny in a Black Comedy sort of way.

Contrast that to like Eric Cartman parodying Porky Pig, saying "That's all folks" and all, just after he fed a teenager his own parents, which is too outrageous to be taken completely seriously.

That said I'll abstain the voting on Krill and Strannix until I hear Tyk's opinion after he watches the movie

Does my argument help?

Edited by G-Editor on Jan 24th 2019 at 12:10:05 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
color2wheel Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
#145716: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:14:36 PM

So this guy, clownprince, asked me to recommend this guy because he is busy and couldn't get to it, and also because I am a fan.

What is the work?

Nomad of Nowhere is another animated web series brought to us by Rooster Teeth. It's about a very adorable looking magic user and his journey throughout a place called nowhere after being chased out of his home by mercenaries that are looking for him.

Who is he?

Don Paragon, the Big Bad of season 1, and the one who sent the Mercenaries after Nomad.

What did he do?

Prior to the series, Paragon came across a rich supply of water in the desert wasteland of Nowhere, and created the oasis. Given the title of Don by El Rey, Paragon harshly taxes the people of Osasis, forcing them to pay a certain weight in gold to even get into the place, and having his men to use violence against the populace if they saw fit. At some point, he made a deal with Toth to supply her dying people with magic (which they need to survive) should she capture the Nomad.

While at first to seem like a campy and reasonable (if incredibly arrogant) authority figure, Paragon reveals his true colors when Toth returns, having abandoned the hunt for the Nomad after Skout was injured. After comparing the injured Skout to an broken object that could be thrown out and replaced, an enraged Paragon kills on of the Dandy Lions just because the man criticized his ambitions.

When El Rey sends one of his governors to check up on how things are going in the Nomad Hunt, Paragon takes out his stress on his men, at one point beating one with lint roller. Confronted by Toro, Paragon lies and claims he has nothing on the Nomad, then sends his men out to capture him before the Toro's champion can.

When Red Manuel arrives with Skout (who turned tail) and the Nomad, he has Skout locked in the dungeon and the Nomad locked in a cage. Paragon then taunts the captured Nomad about his eventual death at El Rey's hands, and how, when he is gifted magic by El Rey and becomes a governor, he'll turn Skout into a pinata and break her.

As he celebrates his victory, Toth tries to get him to hold up his end of the bargain, only for Paragon to point out since Red Manual brought the Nomad in and not her, he doesn't have to, condemning her people, and as a final kick in the teeth, promotes Red Manual to leader of the Dandy Lions.

While all this was happening, however, the Nomad had escaped and confronts Paragon, tired of running. A battle ensues, and Paragon orders his men to set Oasis ablaze to keep the Nomad from escaping, causing the people to rebel against him. During the fight with Nomad, he cuts off the poor guys leg, but is defeated by him with the help of Toth.

Knocked unconscious by the bursting of Osasis' dam, Paragon awakes to see a Murder of crows, all controlled by El Rey, who communicates his anger towards him. Paragon promises he'll catch the Nomad...and asks for just a little more magic to help him do that. Unfortunately for him, El Rey just sends his crows to devour him instead, and makes Toth his new enforcer.

Freudian Excuse or Mitigating Factors?

None for the former. As for the latter, pretty much any redeeming quality he has is done out of pragmatism. He'll reward minions for doing well and even give the intelligent ones multiple chances, but he'll still mistreat, backstab, or kill any who fail him. He is also pretty campy, but I don't feel he takes away from the seriousness of his actions, and he gets progressively less funny as the season goes on.

Heinous Standard?

As Toro himself points out, Paragon is at the bottom of El Rey's "food chain", and isn't respected. That said, this is not used to make him sympathetic in anyway, and despite his place, was willing to burn all of Oasis to the ground and condemn a race of people to death just for Toth's failure. He also sets it.

Conclusion?

I'll let you decide, but I give him a [tup]

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#145717: Jan 24th 2019 at 2:22:45 PM

[tup] to the Ironically named Paragon.

Also I should say the reason I said yes to the under siege candidates so far Is...the film isn't even a Black Comedy overall. But lets save future discussion on that for later.

Edited by Kylotrope on Jan 24th 2019 at 2:26:44 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#145720: Jan 24th 2019 at 3:00:51 PM

I was actually considering nominating Paragon, but didn't know if he was played seriously enough. He has his Played for Laughs moments, like obsessing over his clothes and leaving to go get peasants off of the lawn and stuff like that, as well as the series already having a pretty high Heinous Standard with the main antagonist El Rey and his Governors literally committing genocide. Then again, he is an egotistical dick who extorts his people and outright kills a man onscreen, so I guess abstain for now.

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#145721: Jan 24th 2019 at 3:08:35 PM

As it is now, excluding abstains, vote on Strannix and Krill is 4-2 for Krill and 3-2 for Strannix.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 24th 2019 at 3:33:06 AM

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#145722: Jan 24th 2019 at 3:08:46 PM

[up][up]Hold on. I didn't read the EP but extortion and killing one man doesn't sound bad enough if others have committed genocide. Plus, it sounds like je is Played for Lauggs a bit.

Edited by username2527 on Jan 24th 2019 at 3:09:11 AM

color2wheel Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
#145723: Jan 24th 2019 at 3:10:50 PM

[up][up][up]Yeah, but as I mentioned in the post, he does pretty nasty things for a someone the others baddies consider a low level grunt with a bit of power

Edited by color2wheel on Jan 24th 2019 at 3:11:25 AM

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#145724: Jan 24th 2019 at 3:11:15 PM

Well, we have several CMs who've had moments played purely for laugh and not Black Comedy. Animated series Joker being beaten up by Harley Quinn for trying to replace her, Jose Parlor being kicked in the balls by Lucy, and a fuckton of moments where Archie comics Robotnik has been the butt of a joke.

There can absolutely be moments where they're not played seriously. They just need to have their truly heinous actions treated with the magnitude they deserve.

[down] Abstaining. Never watched the show, so I don't know how serious his heinous actions are treated

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jan 24th 2019 at 6:29:03 AM

color2wheel Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: I <3 love!

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