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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#123401: Jul 8th 2018 at 4:57:52 PM

[tup]to the Red Queen. That said, there’s room for different interpretations. Is she a monster who relishes in the suffering she causes, viewing killing as some sort of sick game? Is she a force of natures who simply can’t act different? Does she genuinely respect her son? Or is it more a Joker-Batman situation, with her enjoying their fight because he gives her a challenge?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123402: Jul 8th 2018 at 5:15:23 PM

edit: Actually it might be a bit on the big side, so let me get 43110 to trimm the expanded version.

Edited by miraculous on Jul 8th 2018 at 5:32:14 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#123403: Jul 8th 2018 at 5:34:56 PM

[tup] Red Queen and Wilson

@ACW: In Bennett's writeup, please change "pictures and images" to "pictures and films."

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#123404: Jul 8th 2018 at 5:41:01 PM

[tup] to Chuck Norris... I mean Wilson and the Red Queen

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123405: Jul 8th 2018 at 6:00:47 PM

Here's a rewrite of Sora takigawa from Kamen Rider Wizard, couresty of 43110.

@ acw: Please though pothole phantoms as our Our Demons Are Demons Are Different and give into despiar as Despair Event Horizon in the header though.

Kamen Rider Wizard: Sora Takigawa/Gremlin became a misogynistic Serial Killer after murdering his girlfriend for breaking up with him and targeting other women matching her description before being made into the phantom. Unlike most phantoms who lose all aspect of their personality, Gremlin retains Sora's sadistic desire to hunt women. Pretending to care about protecting the Gate, Sora reveals he really just wanted to use her t indulge in his sadistic fantasies and then tries to kill her. Killing his boss, Wiseman to gain power, Sora also kills the The Hero's Love Interest to take her Philosopher stone. Using it to rampage through Tokyo, Sora attempts to spread enough despair to turn all Gates into violent phantoms while killing all the remaining normal humans.

Edited by miraculous on Jul 8th 2018 at 6:02:35 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#123406: Jul 8th 2018 at 6:38:16 PM

Going to say "no" on the human villain from Godzilla vs King Ghidorah. He's less a character than he is a caricature of the "evil American" that's depressingly common in Japanese media, and honestly, the destruction caused by King Ghidorah in that film is nothing really special. A monster flattens Japan once a week in the various Godzilla continuities and Hisei is no exception.

That discussion is over. Move on.

You are not the thread. You do not get to tell people when it is too late to vote. Particularly since, in the event that someone else tries to reopen the discussion weeks, months, or years from now, we will need an accurate tally of "yes" and "no" votes. Hence, I am throwing my vote in so that if, in the future, it is needed, it will be on record.

Edited by AmbarSonofDeshar on Jul 8th 2018 at 6:41:06 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#123407: Jul 8th 2018 at 6:57:53 PM

[tup] Red Queen and Chuck

[up] Damn...

[down] Agreed. Caricature or not, if he's heinous enough, then we have a candidate.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jul 8th 2018 at 11:12:53 AM

CyberXIII Since: Apr, 2009
#123408: Jul 8th 2018 at 7:03:02 PM

Chuck Wilson being an ugly caricature of Americans is very true, but he's enough of a character to count. And, again, he trumps most of the human antagonists in the setting for sheer vileness since he's the only one to deliberately make a monster in a horrible fashion and then use said monster as a WMD. The commentary is obvious and glaring but in context, it's enough to make this list.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#123409: Jul 8th 2018 at 7:15:22 PM

Here's another video game candidate I found: Zymeth of Battle Realms:

Who is he what does he do?

Lord Zymeth is the evil and remorseless leader of the magically driven Lotus clan and main antagonist of the Dragon Path. Politically, Zymeth is cunning and extremely treacherous; he forced his way into power by disposing of his political opponents, including the high priestess Sethess, who would have otherwise been the most legitimate candidate for the leadership of the Lotus Clan at the time. In fact, Zymeth was almost single-handedly responsible for the great war that erupted between the Wolf, Serpent, and Lotus Clans.

Because Zymeth worked his way into favor with the Serpent Clan's Lord Oja, he found himself in a position to bend the Serpents' will to his own, and he was able to wipe out nearly the entire clan after tricking them into constructing ships that would have supposedly taken them away from the isle they inhabit. These ships were cursed to drain the life from their passengers, and upon discovering Zymeth's treachery, Oja plunged the two clans into war.

The Wolf Clan took this opportunity to rebel from their enslavement and struck up a war of their own. Zymeth's political power is equally matched by his magical prowess on the battlefield. Zymeth is more powerful than any Lotus master warlock, and while he has the ability to cast all sorts of magic, he seems to favor dabbling with the weather more than casting other types of spells. Zymeth doesn't carry any weapons, but he's able to summon storm clouds in an instant. His special attack causes it to rain in the surrounding environment, letting rice grow back at a faster rate and triggering his innate ability, which sends arcs of lightning toward nearby enemies during a downpour.

For generations, Lord Zymeth has ruled the Lotus Clan as the undisputed first among equals. He is a master manipulator and orator, using deception and threats to build coalitions and cow opponents. In his dealings with other clans, Zymeth also uses his great longevity to powerful effect, planning schemes that span generations of Wolf and Serpent clansmen.

No one could rule the Lotus without being a wizard as well as a statesman, and Zymeth is no exception. Like most of the warlock elite he is a specialist, and his sphere is weather, the sizzling crackle of lightning or the relentless force of a summer storm.

In the Campaign Mode, he will be one of your main enemies, and the main enemy if you decide to pick the heroic path of the Dragon. He conquers provinces, and turn many of them into dangerous location due to the constant raining from his power, and toxic made in his military post while killing innocent villagers in those lands. He eventually made a deal with the the ancient evil Nightvol by getting the Serpent's Orb in order get more power, and trying to use it to wipe out his enemies only for his final stand to fail and get executed by main protagonist Kenji.

Heinousness:

Easily the most evil character in the game. He controls the Lotus Clan which are a dangerous groups of wizards and warlocks who commits acts of genocide, satanism, human sacrifice. Zymeth also controls his clan through fear using executions and single-handed genocides of innocent people or his own army.

Mitigating Factor:

Nothing. Comparing him to Nightvol is impossible due to Nightvol not really having much information revealed about him other then being a ramrod ancient evil.

Final Verdict: A pretty safe choice and a easy yes.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#123410: Jul 8th 2018 at 7:15:35 PM

I'll throw in a "yes" for Chuck.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#123411: Jul 8th 2018 at 7:16:40 PM

Yes to Zymeth. Good string of candidates lately, all!

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#123413: Jul 8th 2018 at 7:34:12 PM

[up][up]Given how popular both Planescape Torment and Dungeons and Dragons are, I'm surprised the Planescape setting has never been browsed for candidates. It's not even a case like Ravenloft where everyone is too evil to count, I think Planescape is just one of the more obscure campaign settings even though I personally consider it to be the most unique and interesting.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#123414: Jul 8th 2018 at 7:39:50 PM

Damn right. But it is, sadly, one of the most unexplored as it's been defunct for a long time and most only know it through Planescape Torment.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#123415: Jul 8th 2018 at 7:43:22 PM

I have one more module candidate I'm going to do tomorrow, but that will be it until I finish going through all the material. I do have several of the 15 Faction leaders on watch, especially Rowan Darkwood, who's such a monstrous asshole that I'm amazed they can still stat him as Chaotic Good.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#123416: Jul 8th 2018 at 8:07:00 PM

[tup] Lord Zymeth

[tup] The Red Queen

[tdown] Wilson for the same reasons as Ambar. He is not only a charicature, he is a xenophobic charicature.

Also. I am reserving Aguu: Tensai Ningyou, is a series with a relatively dark concept that is very likely to get a CM at the very least.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jul 8th 2018 at 10:12:24 AM

Watch me destroying my country
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#123417: Jul 8th 2018 at 8:13:59 PM

@Kazuya Prota Wanna do collab again with me...I do have some reservation regarding that.

Also, speaking of which... I'm actually wanting to get something out of my chest. Regarding holding an EP based on an unfinished anime from an old and finished manga... For my perspective, I think its at best to EP the guy in case if he qualifies two weeks after the anime ended. Like for example, if Psyren has an ongoing anime but the manga's already finished... I think its better to wait for two weeks after the anime is finished so that it would be fair for those who reserve the anime and could check some noticeable differences. Thoughts on my idea?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#123418: Jul 8th 2018 at 8:17:30 PM

[up] Oh yeah, is a series that certainly have a chance to get more than a single CM.

(but if it get just one, then we would come back to have duel to do the EP, just like in the To Be Heroine discussion)

Like for example, if Psyren has an ongoing anime but the manga's already finished... I think its better to wait for two weeks after the anime is finished so that it would be fair for those who reserve the anime and could check some noticeable differences. Thoughts on my idea?

Personally. Just propose the manga and then wait for the anime if it really did have Adaptational Villainy or a Anime-only villain that qualified

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jul 8th 2018 at 10:18:39 AM

Watch me destroying my country
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#123419: Jul 8th 2018 at 8:21:13 PM

[up] The reason why I propose my idea is because of the Banana Fish thing where the manga is finished while the anime is still ongoing... And I felt that the anime will follow the manga a little bit despite of noticeable differences so yeah... I actually P Md Lighty about that.

Oh yeah... And a yes to Lord Zayneth

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jul 8th 2018 at 10:21:15 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#123422: Jul 8th 2018 at 9:09:40 PM

Now. For Wild Cards. ACW, please, do your magic. I was thinking adding a Would Harm a Child Pot Hole, but is kind of pointless when the victim was named "Kid Dinosaur"

  • Complete Monster: The Astronomer was an old man with powers based on ritualistic magic, having willingly erased all the memories of his own life and starting a search for power which would lead him to the cult of the Egyptian Freemasons where he would become a high ranking member. Using his position to kidnap several women and use them as Human Sacrifices in depraved sexual rituals to empower himself, The Astronomer unwillingly gained the attention of heroic Aces that raided the Freemason temple. Leaving the Cult Leader die in the raid to take the leadership himself, The Astronomer plans his revenge against the heroic Aces which he carries on the 40th anniversary of the Wild Card Day where his servants injured and killed other Aces in a murder spree while he personally dismembered Kid Dinosaur in front of his father and the general public. An Ace whose powers are literally based on his own depravity, the Astronomer was the first Big Bad of the series and one of its more monstrous.

Also. Look at this guys. It seems that The Astronomer is one of those cases that were 100% intentional.

Positive qualities – Absolutely none whatsoever – totally evil in every way imaginable.

Negative character traits – Sociopath, sadist, megolamaniac, manipulative, pathological liar, vindictive, petty, humourless (despite annoying giggle).

In a nutshell – Every kind of wrong.

Yep. Totally intentional.[awesome]

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jul 8th 2018 at 11:22:43 AM

Watch me destroying my country
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#123424: Jul 8th 2018 at 9:37:07 PM

Alright, have a new manga example...

What's the Work?

Choujin Sensen is a short fighting manga with an interesting premise...thanks to a dimensional gate, a mysterious being emerges: a naked, violet haired girl named FEE. Now, FEE has seemingly endless power, but she seems to not want anything...except entertainment. For this end, FEE seeks out differing groups of people....some she locates and offers them their desires in the form of powers: The Espers. Others, she finds who have trained hard and are naturally skilled. The Experts.

And...she sets up seven death matches. Each between an Expert and an Esper. Why? Who knows? Her purposes are very mysterious, but she wants to see the results. One of those matches is Ye Hao Yue, the expert; a god-tier kung fu master....and Hitsugi Morio, the Esper, a blind doctor who has his vision restored by FEE and made even better. Ultravision, if you will, that makes him a human MRI....but he has a very,...creepy hobby.

Who is Hitsugi Morio?

Morio is the son of a wealthy family who was a medical prodigy and was driven to become a doctor. A driven, talented surgeon, he became very famous and well to do as a result. Unfortunately, he suffered from a disease that cost him his sight and he despaired at it. Then FEE appeared to him and offered him his sight if he participated in her little game at a time of her choosing. He agreed, of course, as it let him get back to his number one passion!

....abducting and dissecting attractive young boys. Yeah.

So, Morio is seen in flashback at one point in his illustrious medical career...a little boy was brought in. Ten years ago, and 'handsome'....Morio was to operate on him...and found himself giving into bloodlust, cutting the kid apart. Morio's wealthy family covered everything up and Mori switched gears, instead beginning to abduct and murder handsome little boys, preserving the corpses in various states of dissection, complete with photos that he cheerfully shows Yue before their duel, and Yue (a handsome young man himself) is next on the chopping block. And Morio? Just wants to go forth and keep murdering handsome little boys as long as he can. Yue is no saint himself, being a rather remorseless and brutal killer in Kung Fu, but even he's not very thrilled by Morio. The two commence their battle and Morio's knowledge of anatomy allows him to hold his own, fighting with scalpels and aiming to carve Morio apart.

Yue takes a bad injury and is forced to retreat for a bit. Morio murders an innocent doctor, gleefully cutting his throat as he gloats about taking Yue as the 'strongest, handsomest boy in the world' for his collection. In the ensuing fight, Yue taps deeper into his skills and unleashes the fullest of his technique against Morio, causing the sick bastards body to boil from inside out and tear the mad doctor apart.

Heinous Standard?

Not gonna lie, this is a really, really high standard with a lotta murder, bloodshed and even the heroes can be dicks at times (Yue demonstrates his technique by killing a perfectly innocent waitress whose only crime was treating him like a minor)...the main villains? Well get to them, but the levels of death are huge here. But Morio? Morio is unique. He's a serial killer of children, ranging from 6-18, with a HUGE bodycount, and plenty shown necessary to establish his pattern. It's a unique crime with no competition and the work is optimistic enough in other places, having a hopeful end, so that we never get too dark.

Mitigating Qualities?

Good god, no. Morio is just a twisted bastard who gets off murdering and dissecting young boys, and it's as disturbing as it sounds.

Conclusion?

Easy keeper.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#123425: Jul 8th 2018 at 9:39:13 PM

[up] Yes there... And Lighty...youve got any objections for my idea?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."

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