During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Anyway, here’s an effort-post on a One Piece villain. But not from the manga, but rather, one of it’s movies. After searching, I couldn’t find any discussion about the guy, so here’s an effort-post on the main villain of the film One Piece Film: Strong World, Shiki. (Fun fact, while the movie itself isn’t canon, Shiki himself is canon due to being mentioned during the Impel Down arc along with being the center of the canon special chapter “Chapter 0” making him in a sense the only movie Big Bad to be a canon character)
Who is he? What does he do?
Shiki is the captain of the Golden Lion Pirates and Big Bad of the film Strong World. He’s a devil fruit user who ate the Float-Float Fruit, which allows Shiki to levitate any non-living thing he touches, along with being able to levitate himself. Prior to the movie, three years before Gol D. Roger got executed, he attempted to make an alliance with Roger. If Roger told Shiki the location of an ancient weapon (It’s not revealed which of the ancient weapons, Pluton, Uranus, or Poseidon, that Shiki’s referring to) Shiki and Roger will rule the world together. Roger refuses, so Shiki attempts to kill him and Roger’s entire crew. A freak storm occurs during their battle, wiping out half of Shiki’s fleet by chance, and Roger’s crew escapes, with a ship wheel getting permanently lodged inside Shiki’s head.
Later, when Shiki finds out that Roger’s been “captured” and is about to be executed, Shiki is furious that the man who defeated him somehow got captured (not knowing that Roger turned himself in willingly) and shoots the crewmember who told him that and invades Marineford, slaughtering his way through dozens of marines and demanding that Roger be brought to him so that he can kill Roger himself. Sengoku and Garp then tell him that Roger will be executed at Loguetown, infuriating Shiki even further that a legend like Roger will be killed in the East Blue, the weakest of the oceans. Garp and Sengoku fight Shiki and, after a tough battle, they defeat Shiki and have him locked inside Impel Down. Shiki severs his legs that were chained with seastone cuffs, replaces them with swords, and escapes Impel Down. He and his scientist Indigo than form a plan to harvest all of a rare plant known as “IQ” from the archipelago, Merveille. (This is where the special chapter ends. The rest of his actions is where we talk about Strong World)
The IQ plant causes animals to evolve and mutate, so Shiki and Indigo intend to use the plant to create a chemical that Indigo named SIQ, that rapidly accelerate and heighten said evolution process, mutating countless animals into savage monsters. They work on the formula for about 20 years before they perfect it enough for their plan. Unleash the mutated animals to destroy and wipe out all life in the East Blue to threaten the World Government into giving control of the world to Shiki. Shiki also takes over Mereville and forcibly take all of the men and young women living in Mereville to work for him as slaves, with the young children and older women being left alone. Due to Shiki harvesting all of the IQ plants he could find, anybody who gets poisoned from the Daft Green trees on the island are left to die. (Shiki is well aware that people are poisoned from the Daft Green trees as he keeps surveillance on the people who live in the village, but he does nothing to help them)
20 years later when the movie takes place, Shiki announces that he’s back in the game by attacking Marineford and using his powers to crash several marine battleships, drowning countless marines. He also starts unleashing animals onto islands and villages in the East Blue, wiping them out. Later on, when he happens to have his ship fly above the Straw Hats’ ship, Nami warns them that a cyclone is coming, despite one of Shiki’s own navigators insisting otherwise since the three of them detected no hints of a storm. Sure enough, a storm comes, with Shiki closing the doors of his ship, leaving any crew members that were previously outside of the ship to die, and turns around to avoid the cyclone. Shiki then kills the navigator who said there was no hints of a storm and then flies down to casually chat with the Straw Hats. When Luffy tells Shiki they intend to go to East Blue to stop whatever’s been threatening it, he has the Thousand Sunny fly upwards offering to take them to the East Blue faster, only to kidnap Nami, and send the Thousand Sunny crashing down, separating the Straw Hats.
Later, when Nami escapes and she reunites with the Straw Hats (sans Robin, Brook, and Franky), Shiki comes to the village they’re staying in and, without too much trouble, defeats Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Usopp, and Chopper, trapping them in a giant pillar of earth, and threatening to kill them unless Nami joins as his navigator. Nami states that she will if Shiki promises not only to spare her friends, but to leave the East Blue alone as well, which Shiki agrees to. Shiki then has his men tear down the Daft Green trees surrounding the village, whose spores kept the savage animals away, to have the monsters destroy the village For the Evulz (after intentionally giving a Hope Spot by letting the residents know that he'll be leaving and how he'll release the people he took as slaves no less)
Nami comes to the conclusion that Shiki never intended to honor the bargain about sparing the East Blue (I have no idea how she came to that conclusion, but Shiki confirms that was the case so...woman’s intuition?) and tries to destroy the Daft Green plants on Shiki’s ship to have the mutated animals destroy it. Shiki finds out about this, uses his powers to immobilize Nami, and leaves her to die a slow and painful death from the poison of the Daft Green trees (though he does say that if she survives past the meeting he’s having with the other pirate captains that are part of his armada, he’ll let her be his navigator again)
The Straw Hats come to save Nami, take out all of Shiki’s allies (and later the mutated animals that come when Nami uses Billy, a mutated electricity producing bird, to set off dynamite to destroy the Daft Green trees on Shki’s ship), Usopp and Chopper free Nami, Zoro defeats Indigo and gets the antidote to cure Nami’s poisoning, and Luffy confronts Shiki, defeating him and destroying the Island that Shiki uses as his ship.
Heinous By The Standards of the Story?
With his plan to destroy the East Blue with his mutated animals, fully intending to unleash them on the rest of the world later on if the World Government doesn’t give control to him, this makes Shiki arguably the most heinous character in the franchise so far (maybe second to Enel) intending to have the mutated animals slaughter thousands if not millions of people as a simple threat to the World Government. And the countless people already killed when he stormed Marineford prior to the movie and when he already started to unleash animals onto the East Blue gives him quite the high body count.
None.
Any other mitigating factors?
The first one that might be brought up is how goofy Shiki acts. Shiki has a lot of comedic scenes, such as him, Indigo, and the gorilla Scarlet doing a dance number to try and impress Nami, or having a tendency to do Manzai skits with Indigo. However, much like Xykon, Hades, and multiple versions of The Joker, while the character enjoys to act silly, his heinous actions are played deadly serious. By the third act of the film, he drops his playful demeanor entirely (to the shock of Indigo) and shows his true colors as a sadistic, Faux Affably Evil bastard.
There's also how, in Chapter 0, he viewed Gol D. Roger as a Worthy Opponent, and hated the idea of a legend like him dying in the East Blue, but not only have we had several CMs who had respect for others as a Worthy Opponent, but unlike others who viewed Roger as a Worthy Opponent like Garp, nothing redeeming comes from it. He intends to wipe out the East Blue despite knowing that it’s Rogers home, and even when Roger’s captured and is about to be executed, it’s clear that he’s simply pissed that he isn’t the one to do Roger in. Along with that, in the film Strong World, Shiki shows no signs of respecting Roger any longer, with the only time he acknowledges him being when Luffy is about to defeat him where he thinks of how he’s been defeated by somebody from the East Blue for a second time before angrily screaming Roger’s name. So I’m taking that with a grain of salt.
He also is friendly with Indigo and Scarlet the gorilla, and enjoys doing skits with them, but he shows no signs of giving a shit about them as people. When the Straw Hats invade his meeting, both Indigo and Scarlet are attacked by Zoro and Sanji respectively when they get in Luffy's way, and Shiki doesn't show so much as an ounce of concern.
Final Thoughts?
While initially his respect for Roger in Chapter 0 made me hesitant, him not doing anything altruistic out of said respect, along with pretty much abandoning it by the time Strong World rolls by makes me give him a
.
edited 15th May '18 3:02:20 PM by Awesomekid42
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
To Shiki
OP might keep its page at this rate.
edited 15th May '18 12:53:56 PM by MasterJoseph
IPP Wick Check created.Likewise and sticking with a nay on Simula, I highly doubt the work includes lines that explicitly say, "Yes, she felt guilty but this is 100% not a genuine interest in being a good person and she is in no way good." Unless the author was literally trying to pump out a CM and that's a whole other issue.
That's the bit you flag as departing from canon? :P
If you're saying he stands out from the series' other CMs and the way the story's written actually allows Scorch to stand out from them, does this mean Adam and Abigain need to be revisited on the grounds that Scorch sets a standard they don't meet?
edited 15th May '18 2:13:00 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.Yes to Shiki. And a villain showing respect isn't necessarily mitigating, if they are still evil and like to commit evil crimes than they are still able to count. Take for example Frieza, he respects Goku's strength but still wants to be as cruel as he is able to be to Goku and his friends as well as other people. So no, a villain respecting their enemy's strength isn't necessarily mitigating but it is sort of a case by case basis.
edited 15th May '18 2:57:54 PM by Knack
I haven't seen all of Strong World so I can't really comment authoritatively on the matter, but my understanding was that Shiki had genuine respect for Roger. I just watched the scene where he assaults Marineford after finding out that Roger was captured and it seems like respect that could be mitigating. He mentions how if Roger had "lent him a hand" they could have ruled together and that they "might have been enemies, but we were pirates of the same era!" He does say that if Roger will die he should be the one who kills him, but that comes directly after the previous lines and comes across to me more like he doesn't want him to be killed by the Marines.
The fact that he was willing to assault the headquarters of the Marines for Roger alone makes me feel like there was a bit more to the respect than simple respect for strength. Combined with what he says to Garp and Sengoku makes his respect for Roger mitigating to me. So I have to vote
to Shiki. His relationship with Roger is ambiguous but unless it's shown for sure that he lost that respect I don't think he can count.
Going to give a "nay" to Shiki in that case, it sounds like, in spite of all his brutality, there was an amicable level of respect to the man himself that makes me feel he cannot count.
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Sounds a bit like the Salamanca twins, with people writing off the fact they showed love for each other by trying to say they didn't do so frequently enough in present day, despite their being zilch showing such affection ever went away.
edited 15th May '18 5:32:11 PM by 43110
@Tommy
Fair enough. Don't really agree, but I see where you're coming from
Ok, I'd argue there's more than zilch indicating the affection went away if his last acknowledgment of Roger being him angrily screaming about his name in about how he lost to a man from the east blue. That's him not thinking fondly of Roger, that's showing he harbors a grudge against him.
edited 15th May '18 5:41:12 PM by Awesomekid42

@Giantlevthian
Word of God doesn't mean anything on whether the character is a Complete Monster or not.