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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#104401: Dec 29th 2017 at 12:04:30 AM

I replayed Spyro: Year of the Dragon for the first time in years yesterday, and I noticed something interesting concerning the game's main antagonist, the Sorceress. She may be even worse than her current writeup makes her out to be.

In the cutscene where she reveals her true colors to the naive Bianca, the Sorceress states that she's going to create "a monster to end all monsters", and send it to kill all the dragons. Not just the hatchlings she abducted, but every single one of them, just so she can collect their wings for a spell.

Why'd she kidnap 151 dragon eggs in the first place? The answer is simple; dragons are the source of magic in her world, and as more stolen eggs hatched, the more powerful she became. The more powerful she became, the more capable she was to create a monster to carry out what's basically genocide.

Not bad for a villain in a game rated E. This is just my interpretation, though, and I'm wondering what you guys think.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#104402: Dec 29th 2017 at 12:05:35 AM

I'm thinking she may need an expansion with this in mind.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#104403: Dec 29th 2017 at 12:11:50 AM

Speaking of expansions....I think I'm fine if someone expand Tommy Udo's entry. Haven't seen Kiss of Death But planning to see it come to think of it

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#104404: Dec 29th 2017 at 12:14:04 AM

I can expand Tommy there if it's needed... I've seen the flick and he's an impressively easy keep for the time period.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#104405: Dec 29th 2017 at 12:20:41 AM

Yeah, I mean....He has a pretty nice image that suits CM nicely. And his crimes in his writeup is only pushing an eldery woman with a wheelchair downstairs and tries to murder a hero....That seems kind of lacking like Souichi Tomoe's original/past writeup and Maro/Marlo's writeup

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#104406: Dec 29th 2017 at 12:21:40 AM

I'll get to him with my batch. Mind adding him to my to-do, ACW? I think I'll only have about one more candidate before I get to my behemoth load.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#104408: Dec 29th 2017 at 12:32:29 AM

How's this...

Spyro: Year of the Dragon: The Sorceress is the cruel ruler of the Forgotten Worlds. Manipulating her apprentice Bianca into abducting 150 dragon eggs under the guise of restoring magic to her kingdom, the Sorceress quickly reveals the true depths of her selfishness and hypocrisy. Completely uncaring of the lives of her men, the Sorceress transforms her own minions into freakish monsters to fight Spyro, and ultimately plans to create a monster to wipe out every dragon, even the hatchlings, all so she can collect their wings for a spell that will give her eternal youth. She nonchalantly states that she doesn't even have to kill them; she just doesn't want them wriggling around while she removes their wings. A genocidal tyrant who only cares about herself, the Sorceress stands out as the darkest and purest villain in the original Spyro trilogy.

edited 29th Dec '17 12:53:39 AM by JoeBlitz

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
ChaoticQueen Since: Mar, 2011
#104410: Dec 29th 2017 at 1:22:55 AM

[tdown] For Snoke. We still don't know enough about him. I say wait and see if IX gives him any backstory.

Abstaining on Brienne of Tar... I mean Phasma of the First Order. I have not read the books, so I can only judge her based on the movies, where she really doesn't do much.

[tdown] For William Afton. The franchise is too vague with his motivations for me to say yes.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#104411: Dec 29th 2017 at 1:27:57 AM

Yes to Phasma and Red Skull. No to Snoke.

No one mind if I postpone the discussion of The Exorcist for tomorrow?

toonyloon Since: Jul, 2011
#104412: Dec 29th 2017 at 3:05:28 AM

[tup] Phasma and Red Skull. I'm leaning [tup] on Snoke, but I think it's best to put him on the wait-and-see list.

I'll admit, I do think there's a small (and I mean small) chance of Kylo Ren making it, but only if he pulls an Ego and actively works to get rid of all his mitigating qualities, which is very unlikely. It's also an apples-to-oranges comparison, as Ego wasn't manipulated from a young age like Ben was.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#104413: Dec 29th 2017 at 3:28:10 AM

[tup] Drakonis, Zola and Zolgia

New proposal, from Dead Heat.

Who's the candidate?

Dr. Ernest Mc Nab, the city's head coroner hired by chemical executive Arthur P. Laudermilk to assist in his attempts to resurrect the dead.

What does he do?

Mc Nab, after perfecting the process, kidnaps the rich guys who helped him fund the process and has them Buried Alive, leaving them alive for the 12 hours zombies are usually allotted by this process in an And I Must Scream scenario. He then takes all their money as his own. Well, all except Laudermilk himself, whom Mc Nab replaced with a "volunteer" whom he killed. Wanting more money, Mc Nab resurrects criminals killed in shootouts and has them rob jewelry stores for him, in what is considered the most violent string of robberies in recent history. In the most recent one (which sets the pattern), we see the thugs kill a few cops and almost kill a clerk before Detective Roger Mortis manages to kill them again.

Mortis and his partner Doug Bigelow end up tracing the corpses to Laudermilk's company, where a recently-resurrected biker attacks Bigelow. Mortis rescues his partner, but gets locked in a decompression chamber used to humanely kill animals. Mc Nab is in the operation chamber, and turns on the decompression, suffocating Mortis.

Luckily, Roger is resurrected by his buddies, and is on the case. Mc Nab and his co-conspirators try to kill our heroes with a bunch of zombies, but fail every time. That is, for a while. Eventually, the zombie Mooks manage to drown Bigelow in his fish tank. While processing this, Mortis learns that the PR rep for the company, who has been helping them with the case, is also undead. Mc Nab, despite promising to help her stay alive, lets her rot away.

Mortis, about to decay entirely, decides to go after Mc Nab for a Roaring Rampage of Revenge. Unfortunately, Mc Nab gets the upper hand and decides to have a little fun with Roger's demise. You see, he recently killed Roger's Love Interest, who happened to work under him. So, he decides to leave his nemesis where he hid her body, adding some psychological torment to the already slow death of leaving somebody to decay.

Roger escapes, and goes to the villains' lair, where they're giving a demonstration of their machine to some rich clientele, demanding half their wealth for use of the machine, using Bigelow's corpse as a demonstration. Thing is? He's been dead too long, and is a mindless slave. Mc Nab orders the corpse to kill Mortis, just for the psychological bent that he so adores. Luckily, he hasn't been dead for so long that Mortis can't jog his brain back by calling upon his short-term memory (I know, go with it). Our dynamic duo prepare to kill Mc Nab, but he shoots himself to stop them. Unsatisfied with this, they resurrect him. Twice. This makes people explode.

I fucking love B-movies.

Heinousness?

The Heavy, sets it. Laudermilk would count (and be another one for Vincent Price), but he's a total Orcus on His Throne.

Mitigating factors?

Film's an action-horror-comedy, but its villains are no more played for laughs than the villains in Lethal Weapon or Bad Boys. Not an issue.

Mc Nab claims he loved Roger like a son, but this is right before he leaves him to decay in the same place last his dead girlfriend, so that's some pretty Blatant Lies and sadistic taunting.

He has no desire to cure death out of altruism, either. He's only letting multimillionaires and up have it at the cost of half their fortune. It's also made pretty clear that he dislikes Laudermilk, and is only working with him for lots of money.

Verdict?

[tup], and a high recommendation for anybody who likes horror comedies. PM me if you want the link.

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#104414: Dec 29th 2017 at 3:29:50 AM

[tup] Phasma. Like wow.

[tdown] Snoke. We know too little about him and his personal rap sheet isn't terribly impressive when considering the franhcise's heinous standard and his resources.

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#104415: Dec 29th 2017 at 4:06:22 AM

Great EP for William Afton. Unfortunately there are still too many things about him we don’t really know. His motive, for example, or whether or not he really cared about his daughter. So I’m abstaining on him.

[tup] for Drakonis [tup]for AU Arnim Zola. [tup]for Zolgia [tup]for Dr. Ernest Mc Nab [tup]for the evil version of Stilt-Man. I really wish that he would exists. evil grin

UtterKoala Since: Mar, 2017
#104416: Dec 29th 2017 at 4:11:52 AM

[tup] Red Skull [tup]Admin Zola [tup] Manga Drakonis [tup] William Afton [tup] zolgia [tup] Dr. Ernest [tup]Warlock lord

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#104417: Dec 29th 2017 at 4:29:38 AM

[tup]To Red Skull, Drakonis, Zolgia, Zola, Ernest, and Afton. Wait and see with Snoke.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#104418: Dec 29th 2017 at 5:16:59 AM

[tup] to Phasma. Evil c***.

Afton served as the first colab for both Beast and myself.

jjj
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#104419: Dec 29th 2017 at 5:46:31 AM

[tup] William Afton n' Arnim Zola.

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#104420: Dec 29th 2017 at 5:48:29 AM

Guys, I have a question. Is a Complete Monster entry supposed to have italics in it?

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Youtubenut from California Since: Apr, 2015
#104421: Dec 29th 2017 at 5:56:14 AM

[tup] to Red Skull, Snoke and Phasma.

While on the topic of Star Wars, I'm surprised no one has brought up the possibility of Kylo Ren qualifying. I don't really think he counts, but he seems worth a mention.

edited 29th Dec '17 5:58:34 AM by Youtubenut

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#104422: Dec 29th 2017 at 5:58:22 AM

[up]Kylo Ren/Ben Solo will never qualify, not if I have anything to say about it.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#104423: Dec 29th 2017 at 6:01:12 AM

@Vampire: No. That might just be a typo.

And [tup] for Dr. Ernest McNab.

edited 29th Dec '17 6:04:30 AM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#104424: Dec 29th 2017 at 6:06:41 AM

[up]I noticed Honest Iago has italics in his sheet. Should they be removed?

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#104425: Dec 29th 2017 at 7:08:22 AM

Yea on Dr. Ernie

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."

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