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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

hopeshalllive Since: Jan, 2016
#104026: Dec 27th 2017 at 9:41:03 AM

Ok now that my questions have been answered, I concede he fits.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#104027: Dec 27th 2017 at 9:41:07 AM

Yeah after hearing this long debate go nowhere I say keep Zardoz

edited 27th Dec '17 9:41:47 AM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#104028: Dec 27th 2017 at 9:41:45 AM

Changing the subject. I noticed a spelling error for Mike Weissman, and it is just one spelling error. Also, I forgot about the bit where he kills one of his victim's cousin as he was trying to rape her, and the details about him not caring she miscarried. Should those be added in?

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
hopeshalllive Since: Jan, 2016
#104029: Dec 27th 2017 at 9:42:32 AM

Yeah I think that should be fixed.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#104030: Dec 27th 2017 at 9:44:39 AM

Keep Zardoz. He's flat, but not a GDV.

Incidentally, not only are he and Gaddafi the most heinous, but, at least in the first three volumes (come on scanlators!), they're 2 of only 3 villains to not be sympathetic and/or have a Freudian Excuse. The third is Hiba's former commanding officer Col. Harry (who looks remarkably like Bennett), but, while he's bad (kills a kid and kid's mother, plus a few innocents), he fails the work's heinous standard by a lot.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#104031: Dec 27th 2017 at 9:45:37 AM

ACW....every time Dog Soldiers comes up, please stop always saying how much you want to see more or "come on scanlators."

hopeshalllive Since: Jan, 2016
#104032: Dec 27th 2017 at 9:59:12 AM

Ok so I am proposing a new rule change. I am just sick and tired of a CM candidate thread where some people will talk about celebreties and their CM's. While if the actor is referred to in an effortpost, as was the case with Robert Dewey, then that is fine. The issue is people talking about actors being CM's or being against CM's, and not only is it a distraction, it dosent really fit in with the thread's purpose. I propose therefore, that a discussion involving an actor who plays a CM that does not contribute to the discussion can be a thump, and if it proves a serious distraction, could be subject to a moderator warning, and if it is bad enough, a suspension, though only if it is really bad enough.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#104033: Dec 27th 2017 at 10:00:58 AM

Is that really necessary ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#104035: Dec 27th 2017 at 10:03:10 AM

[up][up][up] That's not really a necessary rule. If you don't like those posts that mention it, ignore them. It's not ground-rule breaking. It's just trivia.

edited 27th Dec '17 10:03:21 AM by ReynTime250

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#104036: Dec 27th 2017 at 10:05:58 AM

So, proposed changes to Mike Weissman, shall I make them or what?

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
hopeshalllive Since: Jan, 2016
#104038: Dec 27th 2017 at 10:07:17 AM

[up][up] Yes I think you should. Leaving out a rape and killing an innocent being while committing that crime is quite heinous.

edited 27th Dec '17 10:09:07 AM by hopeshalllive

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#104039: Dec 27th 2017 at 10:09:11 AM

Keep Zardoz.

And Hope? That rule proposal's not getting passed. The mods will decide if we get too off topic.

This isn't the first time you've acted like this over a candidate. If people overwhelmingly say "STOP" and you don't stop, we will take action. Got it?

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
hopeshalllive Since: Jan, 2016
#104041: Dec 27th 2017 at 10:13:05 AM

So was Joseph Strorm of The Chrysalids brought up for discussion on this thread?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
hopeshalllive Since: Jan, 2016
#104043: Dec 27th 2017 at 10:14:23 AM

The YMMV part of the Chrysalids that has him as a Complete Monster really dosent look that good.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#104044: Dec 27th 2017 at 10:15:55 AM

Hmm, that same entry's on the Lit CM page, so it looks like it was approved.

For reference:

hopeshalllive Since: Jan, 2016
#104045: Dec 27th 2017 at 10:40:56 AM

Since whoever wrote Joseph's Strorm's CM's writeup did a pretty bad job, I'm just gonna do a rewrite.

The Chrysalids: Joseph Strorm is father of David Strorm and the Big Bad of The Chrysalids. A fanatical fundamentalist, we first see Joseph's evil when he beats and whips David for an innocent childhood remark about needing a third hand. He then brutally whips David to get him to give up the location of his friend Sophie Wender so he can sterilize her. Upon Sophie's capture, eh proceeds to smugly gloat about it in front of David just to hurt him, who is only 10 years old. When it is discovered that David and his little sister Petra are telepathic, and therefore blasphemies, he personally leads a posse to kill his own children and torture them, even though he tried to spoil Petra. A horrible fundamentalist who unnerves even the Inspector, whose job is to deal with blasphemies, Joseph represents the worst of human intolerance, seeing purity as more important than even his own children.

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#104046: Dec 27th 2017 at 10:52:08 AM

[up]Seems alright.

Also, Mike didn’t kill an innocent while raping someone.

What he actually did was kill Cheryl’s cousin as he was trying to rape her. However, Cheryl is one of his victims who had miscarried after getting pregnant from that rape. Part of him being a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing in that he saves someone but he had badly hurt that same person and showed no remorse for it at all.

So, should I add these details?

edited 27th Dec '17 10:52:24 AM by Vampireandthen

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#104048: Dec 27th 2017 at 11:20:00 AM

Alright, so...

What's the Work?

I have a few and going to get the more schlocky one out of the way first: Silent Retreat is a 2013 horror film about a troubled young woman named Janey who is sentenced by a judge to a special retreat to receive counseling, run by...a sinister doctor without a name, and his sons.

Who is the Doctor?

The Doctor is a harsh man who runs a tight ship on the treat. Now, when his own wife cheated on him, the Doctor murdered her through a method I will address shortly. There are three rules at the facility: the women are not allowed personal possessions, they are not to speak or make noise and they are to obey without question. Now, there are five women there, with many other women having passed through.

The Doctor is revealed to be....acting in very nasty ways. His treatments are designed to brainwash the women and strip them of any individual will to make them submissive slaves to their husbands. Janey befriends a woman there named Alexis, the two investigating what's going on and it turns out Alexis believes she's been there for weeks but has actually been mentally screwed up as not to realize she's been there for two years. There's also one very nasty secret of the clinic: There' a monster, a blind creature that 'evolution forgot' living in the woods. It's very sensitive to sound, hence the 'no noise' rule. When he decides a patient is too willful (like his own wife), the doctor simply ties up women, leads them into the woods and leaves them to be devoured by the creature, faking paperwork to show they've been 'released.' When he realizes his latest attempt to Mind Rape Alexis has failed, he ties her up and leaves her for the monster. Janey saves her just before the monster's attack. They return to the cabin and try to inspire the other women to escape, but the Doctor draws the monster there for it to attack and kill most of the residents, though this is including one of the Doctor's sons. He calmly murders a surviving woman and informs his last son "we have two more bitches to put down"...Alexis gets stabbed by the Doctor and she and Janey flee to a cabin where Alexis, unable to stop crying out and moaning in pain, forces Janey to smother her to death to ease her pain and give Janey a chance to escape. The doctor and his son arrive and Janey manages to stab said son who is savaged by the monster when he cries out. In the ensuing battle, Janey stabs the doctor as the monster stalks through the cabin...Janey then digs her fingers into the doctor's wounds, causing him to scream and be savaged by the monster, with Janey as the only survivor.

Heinous standard?

Sets it.

Mitigating Qualities?

Stone cold misogynist and total bastard. He has his own wife 'disposed' of an runs a brainwashing ring to force women into becoming Stepford Wives. As for his sons? Not much there. He's shocked when the monster gets one of them, but recovers instantly and shows no emotion when the other is killed.

Conclusion?

B Ad movie, but not the worst proposed here. And I'd say keep.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#104049: Dec 27th 2017 at 11:20:54 AM

[tup] To Jill, Holmes and Lucas.

Keep Zardoz.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#104050: Dec 27th 2017 at 11:21:44 AM

[tup]Doctor

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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