During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
To be fair since it is canonical and they were making his conquest more about ambition and because he could it probably meant he could have gotten listed as I think he got cut for blue and Orange morality.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Maybe if they focused on that more. As is, he could definitely still be seen as acting on his programming with his evil overlord demeanor simply a projection from that.
Man I wish Uprising had a continuation. Ever since Samurai Jack concluded Uprising is at the top of my "show's that need continuations" list. Above Gargoyles, Gi Joe Renegades, and Avengers EMH. I've made my peace with Transformers Animated's ending.
Should we take serial escalation for tron into consideration as the first movie was in 1989 everyone ravok mentioned came decades later and we still have the guy from the Fargo movie even though the show gave us someone canocially worse in vargo hoat.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Get a moderator to do a count and I'll add a
to Bob and doppelganger as like the lich they have iffy moral agency but nothing says they don't have it as other members of the black lodge have been shown to not be evil or at least not as bad as them.
edited 9th Oct '17 4:02:08 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I'm of the opinion since there would not be anything else tron related if not for this movie and mcp that like with Hans Gruber this can be an exception and we let it through. Hell there is a gap of over 20 years here between mcp and clu so that is a strange exception when hans gruber and the fargo guy got kept despite serial escalation. Since like mcp they are iconic and they helped to create there franchise meaning there would be no one else if not for them so no one to compare too. So handle it with a different heionous standerd.
edited 9th Oct '17 4:00:38 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Guys......I'm not going to beat around the bush here but I want to ask your opinion about the quotes that I recently posted to the thread in the previous page. What are your opinions on them
edited 9th Oct '17 3:36:55 AM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."To everyone talking about Kane and Fowl lacking heinousness: 1. For Fowl, he was to despicable that a dude who started a war just to get endless fish hates him. 2. Kane REJECTS redemption and then gloats about killing his own father. This shows him truly crossing the MEH and him gloating about makes him a CM.
Also, these 2 both have no redeeming qualities (not to mention, Kane mocks you), unlike other minor C Ms have no humorous moments, and are the 2 darkest villains in the series (Kane especially)
@miraculous: The second quote sounds good; the first one sounds to me like the shedding of a redeeming quality in a nasty way but not really monstrous deeds. Maybe wait a few hours for people to wake up though.
For the record, I'm staying out of the TP discussion because I still want to watch it all.
There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.I know I'm really late to the party with this one, but I noticed a while back that Crusadermon from Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth was mentioned and shot down because of the moral agency thing. On the one hand, yes, she was influenced on some level by Rie's emotions, particularly her murderous desires toward Kamishiro. However, I'd argue that Moral Agency doesn't apply here, because she ends up fully embracing these feelings of her own will. She learned of the darker parts of the human psyche and took to them well, while at the same time condemning humanity for it. She's also a step above the other Royal Knights, who truly believe that they're doing the right thing to protect their world; Crusadermon adores crushing others and sending them into despair: she's the only one of the Kill All Humans faction who actually seems to like the idea, while the others are Well Intentioned Extremists.
If I had to draw parallels to another Complete Monster under similar circumstances, I would say either Gongora from Lost Odyssey, who discovered emotions and ended up being swept up in ambition. and Ardyn Izuna from Final Fantasy XV, who was possessed by demons and abandoned, yet completely accepts his new, vile nature and embraces it wholeheartedly.
edited 9th Oct '17 9:59:09 AM by krimzonflygon2
Quick question: is it possible for the members of a Family That Slays Together to qualify for this trope? The very definition of them being a family implies an emotional connection that can be a redeeming factor, no matter how heinous they are, right?
"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."

Yeah screen time is a big issue there. If it continued we could add him but alas not to be.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."