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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

hopeshalllive Since: Jan, 2016
#91226: Jul 29th 2017 at 2:58:22 PM

So Biara is on the draft page. How many CM's will there be in this round?

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#91227: Jul 29th 2017 at 2:58:59 PM

Could someone do a tally for Zeebad? I've seen plenty of votes in either direction.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#91229: Jul 29th 2017 at 3:04:32 PM

Cool. And it's 32 entries this week.

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#91230: Jul 29th 2017 at 3:16:00 PM

[up] Just a little while ago, there wasn't that many. [lol]

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#91231: Jul 29th 2017 at 3:29:31 PM

I think over half of it is Scraggle and Ravok.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#91232: Jul 29th 2017 at 3:32:27 PM

Not to gloat at all, but... yeah, I'm not terribly surprised by that.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#91233: Jul 29th 2017 at 3:40:35 PM

[tup] for Trick and [tdown] for Toffee

Say is one of the write ups Ygy

edited 29th Jul '17 3:53:11 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#91234: Jul 29th 2017 at 3:41:50 PM

What's the tally on Toffee? BTW, I vote [tdown] in case I didn't make that obvious by my counter arguments.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#91235: Jul 29th 2017 at 3:41:58 PM

[up][up] Ygy is indeed among that batch, I do believe.

edited 29th Jul '17 3:42:08 PM by Scraggle

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#91237: Jul 29th 2017 at 4:49:02 PM

Okay guys here comes a really weird proposal: The Kid Eating Bus Driver by Madame Macabre.

Who is she and what does she do?

The kid eating bus driver is a bus driver that replaces the one the protagonist and her friends, Keith and Lori, liked a lot. She is introduced as a creepy and cranky bus driver who's mood gets worse every time the protagonists ride her bus. One day the driver takes the children to the woods and ties them to trees, except for the protagonists who escape into the woods and notice a skull. The protagonist and Lori are able to distract her while Keith frees the students, and then they trap her in a net and kill her with a form that says she is fired.

Mitigating factors?

None

Heinous standard?

Yes for the story, not sure about in general

Played for Laughs

As an adult Madame Macabre seems to see the story as funny, but presumably took it seriously as a child given the villain was based off a bus driver she did not like.

edited 29th Jul '17 4:49:22 PM by randomtroper89

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#91239: Jul 29th 2017 at 4:55:16 PM

Did we ever officially resolve the Gharnef issue? I don't recall a lot of people voting for keeping him, but I also don't think we got a ton of discussion out of it for a safe call.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#91240: Jul 29th 2017 at 5:11:38 PM

Proposal for the page image for Shin Megami Tensei: behold, Masayoshi Shido's first boss form, himself dressed as a Generalissimo astride a huge golden lion made of writhing human bodies mindlessly worshiping him.

edited 29th Jul '17 5:11:47 PM by HamburgerTime

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#91241: Jul 29th 2017 at 5:23:51 PM

[tdown] to the bus driver. Even if the author originally took it seriously, it was only made public as a source of humor by the author. That... kind of transforms it into a comedy to me. The author no longer takes it seriously and isn't portraying it seriously anymore. Currently the author sees it as a complete joke and I can't look at it as anything else.

[up] That seems like a pretty good image to me.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#91242: Jul 29th 2017 at 5:25:26 PM

[up] Thanks! My only hangup is that this is the Shadow rather than the real-world Shido, but keep in mind the Shadow is how he really views himself.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#91244: Jul 29th 2017 at 5:48:18 PM

If anyone wants the discussion date for Atomic Blonde, go ahead. I'm not in the mood to watch it myself.

UtterKoala Since: Mar, 2017
#91245: Jul 29th 2017 at 6:39:56 PM

[up]Movie sucked, but it could have an interesting CM.

edited 29th Jul '17 6:40:14 PM by UtterKoala

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#91246: Jul 29th 2017 at 6:49:28 PM

I think the trope that applies to that scary golden lion is Body of Bodies, which is similar to Worm That Walks but just distinct enough. And both tropes are very creepy.

I only know of Body of Bodies myself because of Bloodborne.

It would be an unusual pick for an image page, but I do kinda like it. The main issue is the heavy symbolism. He's not exactly doing anything bad in the image itself, but it represents all his awful deeds.

I actually think it would be appropriate for SMT.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#91248: Jul 29th 2017 at 7:58:25 PM

[up] Not terribly fond of it. For a person unfamiliar with the context, the image is cluttered and it's hard to tell what's happening.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#91249: Jul 29th 2017 at 8:01:35 PM

I admit it's not as good as many page images; I was struggling to find one for SMT for a while, since it's a series with very few cinematics and most story beats communicated through Talking Heads.

edited 29th Jul '17 8:01:43 PM by HamburgerTime

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#91250: Jul 29th 2017 at 8:38:36 PM

@SMT picture: If the bodies were clearer, I'd be down for it. As it stands, I had to eyeball it until I made the connection.


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