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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#89677: Jul 12th 2017 at 9:57:07 AM

So Princess is a dog, one that behaves in an unnatural way and does messed up things, and may be vaguely supernatural? And it only has one confirmed human kill? [tdown] to her, everything about the character and its nature is too vague for me.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#89678: Jul 12th 2017 at 10:01:28 AM

BTW, MahStache, please add Dark Koutei to the Drafts.

Also, UtterKoala, this is probably my bad, but please try and trim Froid's entry.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#89679: Jul 12th 2017 at 10:05:52 AM

I'm not sure about animals who display no personality. [tdown] Princess

rosewood47 from A Padded Cell (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#89680: Jul 12th 2017 at 10:16:58 AM

I remember that story and thinking it was pretty silly. [tdown] Princess

edited 12th Jul '17 10:19:54 AM by rosewood47

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#89681: Jul 12th 2017 at 10:19:42 AM

Definite [tdown] for Princess. Both because it feels like it's skimming towards that "dark and edgy tasteless shock value" territory (not saying it is, since I haven't read it), and also because the opening passage has the narrator wondering if something can literally be "born" evil. If something is "born" evil, it's really hard to say if it's an actual character and not just some evil entity doing horrible stuff because....y'know, evil.

edited 12th Jul '17 10:20:40 AM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
rosewood47 from A Padded Cell (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#89682: Jul 12th 2017 at 10:21:42 AM

The quality of the story can be summed up with the following sentence: The dog cuts the power to the family's house.

Stuff like that sends it straight into narm territory for me. Not that quality affects a character qualifying as a CM, just a little aside.

edited 12th Jul '17 10:23:14 AM by rosewood47

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#89684: Jul 12th 2017 at 10:34:26 AM

Yes to Madeline and no to Princess.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#89685: Jul 12th 2017 at 10:34:39 AM

[up][up] There's a difference between being unintentionally funny and intentionally trying to be as gory and disturbing as possible to be "cool."

Either way, Princess's (lack of) personality also seems to disqualify her.

edited 12th Jul '17 10:34:58 AM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#89686: Jul 12th 2017 at 10:50:43 AM

Just FYI...in one week? I'll have an update on Uber.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#89687: Jul 12th 2017 at 11:23:18 AM

Just watched Castlevania (2017). I see Polar Phantom has that reserved for discussion, but if anyone wants to chat about it over PM, feel free to message me.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#89688: Jul 12th 2017 at 11:37:48 AM

Voting "no" on that version of Sinister. It may not be much of a Freudian Excuse but it's more than most of the Marvel novel villains under discussion get.

edited 12th Jul '17 11:38:23 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#89689: Jul 12th 2017 at 12:23:08 PM

More? It doesn't really sound like an excuse really.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#89691: Jul 12th 2017 at 12:52:59 PM

If someone wants to play with Froid's entry, I've added it to the Drafts. It needs severe trimming.

Also, here's what's pending, not from Lightyscravok tongue

edited 12th Jul '17 12:59:57 PM by ACW

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#89692: Jul 12th 2017 at 1:06:28 PM

@ Ambar, to be fair, only worst of the worst of the novel villains have been proposed, the ones who don't have a good enough excuse, if any, for their actions.

There are many villains who get redeeming qualities or at least a scene that gives them a humaizing moment.

When Doom and Magneto show up in these novels, they are their usual selves, with a fair amount redeeming characteristics.

The Gentleman has a whole scene where he reacts to the death of his brother, that's way more relevant then one line of narration, which is negated by further narration.

Heck even some regular 616 monsters do not count in these novels, Ultron gets a redeeming quality in a short story and William Stryker makes a return in a short story before he did in the comics and he doesn't count either.

Only the worst of the worst Marvel novel villains will be proposed.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#89694: Jul 12th 2017 at 1:09:36 PM

What's Ultron's redeeming quality?

Also, in another novel, Ultron apparently cared for his robots.

I have several other novels which I may go through to see if anyone else counts, but I don't think there will be others.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#89695: Jul 12th 2017 at 1:12:18 PM

@ACW: I still gotta do Lady Morwenna's write-up too. I'll get hers done later this week after I effortpost the other possible candidates from The Deptford Mice series.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#89696: Jul 12th 2017 at 1:43:06 PM

[tdown] Princess, who is probably the cutest character to come through the thread, if this is any indication.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#89697: Jul 12th 2017 at 1:58:57 PM

If people feel Sinister's FE is good enough to vote down, that's fine. Let's not badger them about it.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#89698: Jul 12th 2017 at 2:04:58 PM

[tup] to Mr Sinister and Madeline Desormeaux.

UtterKoala Since: Mar, 2017
#89699: Jul 12th 2017 at 2:06:11 PM

Okay, I'm going to be re-writing Froid.

  • Transformers: More than Meets the Eye: Froid. Originally a friendly rival of Rung's, Froid destroyed their friendship when he plagiarised his work, and damaged his reputation. Later in his career, he assisted in the capture of a Serial Killer named Sunder, and accomplice brother Spectre. However, while on a prison ship taking the brothers to Garrus 6, the brothers pulled a successful escape, with Froid as their hostage, though Spectre was killed as a result. After the escape, Froid offered Sunder a perverse offer: in return for Sunder serving as a subject for him to study, Froid would help him cope with the death of his brother and supply him with victims. After convincing Sunder he needed to see his victims in order to feed on them, Froid removed Sunder's eyes to inhibit his appetite. Held up on the planet Scarvix, Froid become rich and famous due to Sunder's abilities to read memories without a patient knowing. All while handing innocence cybertonians to the madman. After coming across the Lost Light, Froid boarded the ship, looking for new victims for Sunder. After reuniting with Rung, he attempted to blackmail his one-time friend into giving him his (Rung's) patient files. When Rung refused, he decided to feed him to Sunder, giving the Serial Killer his eyes Skids to rushed in to warn Rung. In order to escape, Froid opened Sunder's cell, setting free upon the Lost Light as he attempted to retreat.

How's this?

edited 12th Jul '17 2:12:49 PM by UtterKoala

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#89700: Jul 12th 2017 at 2:25:55 PM

[up][up][up] I just think its fun to discuss a character who provokes debate and present different arguments on him.

@AWC, there was a short story where Ultron attacks a expo because a CEO shows off a new type of robot and showd off a new robot. However the CEO is a con man and the robot is an actress in a elaborate costume. Ultron discovers the truth and is about to murder the actress, but Ultron spares her in the end.

edited 12th Jul '17 2:28:34 PM by Overlord


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