During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Surprised no one is at least talking about the latest revelations of Steven Universe at this point after The Trial. With the implication it was a Diamond, NOT Rose that killed Pink Diamond and set the entire War in motion, and Yellow Diamond's reaction being suspect. Plus the unnamed unseen White Diamond being in the background... we will have a LOT of stuff to discuss at the end of this season.
edited 31st May '17 1:42:45 AM by SuperSaiyaMan
Armaggedon. A death-craving villain who actually succeeds in destroying the whole world? Sounds kinda rare.
Armageddon, David Banner, Cho'Gall and with no surprise Brainiac again.
Sorry I haven't been responding for the past few days was preparing for a job interview today though I am doubtful I'll get the position. Anywho be on the lookout for me more since I believe to have found a candidate for me to propose which I will propose in the near future... as in now from NCIS New Orleans I give you Mr Stone who appears in the last three episodes of season 3.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Mr. Stone serves as a hired mercenary for Mayor Hamilton initially as his body guard, but later reveals himself to be a much more wicked individual. In truth Mr. Stone serves as one of the Mayors primary investors of project Clearwater, which would turn the neighborhood of Clearwater into a Shipyard. Stone and Hamilton plan to demolish the neighborhood as soon as possible despite knowing that 2000 people are still living there. This is where Stone comes to play.
First off he also served as the Mayors assassin where had killed the likes of drug cartel leader Javier Garcia, the Handler of the previously discussed Chinese agents, a petty officer that was snooping around the project's shadier dealings, and 7 unnamed victims.
He also planned to kill Congresswoman Michelle Angelou, the only politician in New Orleans against the project first by poisoning her which failed, then threatens Hamilton to doing which succeeds.
He also tried to kill the team several time first by sending his men to do the job causing a massive shootout, then later having his men beat up Dwayne Pride in his bar while planting a bomb inside it planning to blow it up to kill Pride completely uncaring that his men are also in the bar.
When the team tries to follow Stone thinking he will lead to Hamilton, Stone notices them, tries to run away and then shoots a completely innocent man to distract them, and is sporting a malicious smile while doing so, the innocent man died by the way.
As to how to get rid of the 2000 people in Clearwater, well Mr. Stone himself hatched a plan by opening the flood gate onto the neighborhood, causing water to flood which drown all the innocent 2000 people inside Clearwater to death, sending them to a watery grave and even after he dies, sends a postmothous message to his men to carrying with the plan anyway
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities
Nothing on his excuse other than that he is a mercenary and the Mr. Stone isn't actually his real name, its never said what was his real name.
as for redeeming qualities, has has none.
he only working with Hamilton simply because Hamilton hired him and Stone himself highly invested on the project clearwater. Mr. Stone himself doesn't like Hamilton at all and in several times has butted heads with him and even threatening to kill him at one point.
Stone also lacks Hamilton well intentions of gentrifying New Orleans with his shipyard in favor of making a quick buck innocents be dammed.
Heinousness
Now the show previously discussed and approved candidates want to spread a supervirus onto the city of New Orleans though they don't have a specific amount of people they want to kill only that they wanted to kill a lot.
Mr. Stone on the other hand wanted to specifically kill 2000 people in Clearwater first to fuel his greed and later for spite Dwayne's effort.
Also Stone has already exceeded the agents bodycount by killing 12 people plus a few of his own men.
Given that he only appears in the last three episodes of season 3 unlike the Mayor who was a recurring character in the entire show also helps Stone.
In short I believe he counts.
Final Verdict
I'd give him a
. What about you guy?
edited 31st May '17 2:56:31 AM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Novel!David; Cho'gall (seems like the others still count); Armageddon (yeah, considering he's worse than his fellow brothers eliminates any agency doubts).
BTW, for Criminal Minds: Beyond Borders, there MIGHT be candidates. I'm waiting for the wiki entries to go up to see if the eps are worth watching.
edited 31st May '17 2:18:26 AM by ACW
Banner,
Cho'Gall,
Armaegeddin and
Stone.
- Pretty Little Liars: Lyndon James is an obsessive and psychopathic stalker who met Maya St. Germain at a juvenile detention camp. After a brief relationship, she returned home to rekindle her relationship with Emily, at which point Lyndon stalks her and eventually murders her. He then plots to murder Emily next, expressing a desire to kill anyone close to her. Pretending to be Maya's cousin Nate, Lyndon lures Emily with a false friendship and and briefly considers letting her live when he thinks he has a shot, before finding out she's a lesbian. At which point, he abducts Emily's girlfriend and plots to force Emily to watch as he kills her for his perceived rejection. It's also implied Jenna Marshal is next when he learns she witnessed Maya's murder. While attempting to kill Emily, Lyndon is fatally stabbed, and while Caleb is comforting Emily, Lyndon gets a hold of the gun and shoots Caleb before he dies, although Caleb ultimately survives. Despite having nothing to do with the "A Game", Lyndon is one of the most evil characters on the show for his ultimately selfish motives and deranged personality.
for Mr. Stone. He definitely stands out even with the series' steadily growing heinous standard.
Cho' gall, Armageddon and Stone.
I haven't even seen RWBY and I'm very much in the "got what was coming to her" camp. Comparing her to Theon does not work. At all.
Like, Ramsay got what was coming. Hell, he probably deserved worse and he has one of the nastier tastes of his own medicine in the series.
Lighty was right, Theon deserved trial and execution according to the laws of his land.
Look...here's a big difference.
Ramsay? Captured an unconscious Theon, had him tortured, played horrible mind games with him just to crush him more and tortured him long when he was helpless for months until Theon was his broken slave.
Cinder? Ruby arrives to see Cinder murder her friend when she was helpless, after Cinder was in the process of having a city destroyed and lashed out as a result, injuring Cinder. Cinder at that time was an explicit threat in the process of carrying out atrocities. Ramsay was torturing a captive. There's a big, big, big difference. Cinder brought this totally on herself.
Yea to the last examples, btw
So here's a question: Complete Monster is our strongest evil trope. Would you say, therefore, that any such CM deserves any punishment, no matter how awful?
On Cinder, I thought the thing people were pitying her for was what she's putting up with from Salem and her other minions after having been hit hard by karma, the part that was in spoiler tags in the YMMV page's Cry for the Devil entry. No one argued that her getting reduced to a pitiful wreck as consequences of her own atrocities wasn't deserved. She's still not a sympathetic character in the slightest, but her current circumstances can evoke some pity and pathos from the audience.
It's not even the craziest case of audiences feeling sorry for a Complete Monster due to pitiful circumstances. Freeza of all people is cited as being Unintentionally Sympathetic for what he has to endure in Hell in Resurrection F and Dragon Ball Super.
They deserve to pay the price for their deeds, without question. But whether or not anyone, even evildoers, "deserves" to suffer is entirely up to individual opinion.
@Scraggle: It was because, yes I know full well that Cinder is a far worse person than Theon and has done far worse than he ever did or ever could, but saying "this character who's over the MEH totally deserves to suffer" after having previously said "this character who's over the MEH didn't deserve to suffer like that" about another character does strike me as a legit Double Standard. All because one character doesn't have a CM label slapped on them while the other has a potentially premature one.
edited 31st May '17 8:37:34 AM by ANewMan

Yes, and as a comment on the "gross double standard..." methinks you're putting words in our mouths.