During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
No, there's nothing to discuss with Sir Guy. He is the most generic, ridiculously basic villain imaginable and the fact he was proposed gives me serious concerns about understanding this trope.
He does absolutely nothing to be considered CM-worthy. Nothing. He's a basic, generic bad guy.
Ekkimak: So please explain the lore a bit, and then just detail the heinous deeds. It's necessary to put him up on the page.
So he doesn't really commence a massacre or anything? He kinda just kills a few people or threatens to do so?
......Oh. I'm voting
Sir Guy then. The whole massacre bit made it seem like he just passed the line. But if it's nothing short of a few standard murders, then nevermind.
@emperors: Last week's batch was done here
.
Yea on Close. Guy doesn't come anywhere close to this trope, so a firm, firm nay on him.
I think Ekkimak did give Vykar an effortpost a bit back, although that particularly was bereft of the information of the last six episodes. With what I've read there and in the last post concerning Vykar in mind, I'll give him a tentative yes.
edited 26th Oct '16 7:06:04 AM by Scraggle
Alright, I've been sitting on this long enough...from the second Once Upon a Time in China film, set in 1895. Previously, the villains of the first film were put up.
To show the films are not just anti-western, we have the xenophobic cult, the White Lotus Society, led by the fanatic High Priest Kau-Kung, and very obvious stand-ins for the Righteous Society of Harmonious Fists. (Look up the Boxer Rebellion)
Who Is He?
Kau-Kung is a talented martial artist and charismatic cult leader who is sickened by any western influence on China.. In the opening scene of the film, Kung is seen ordering a mass-burning of Western items...including Western dogs as well. Just sets the tone for the type of guy we'll be dealing with.
Under Kau-Kung's orders, the White Lotus roam the streets, destroying all Western items they find, but attacking, brutalizing and killing multiple civilians. Our hero, Wong Fei-Hung's love interest, 13th Aunt, is attacked when she simply takes a photo with several people. At a seminar from Fei-Hung, a doctor by trade, the White Lotus attack by firing flaming arrows to burn everyone in the seminar alive.
Worse, Kau-Kung directs them to also attack a school set up for children to slaughter everyone inside, for the crime of the children learning foreign languages. Fei-Hung saves the children, but the nearby people are so scared of the White Lotus, they refuse to take them in, knowing the White Lotus will murder them if they help the kids. Fei-Hung ends up harboring them in the British consulate which, surprise, the White Lotus are also besieging to, surprise, slaughter everyone inside.
At the end, Fei-Hung attacks the White Lotus, engages Kau-Kung in combat and kills him after exposing his supposed powers as a fraud.
Heinous Standard and Others?
Very high attempted bodycounts as the White Lotus all follow his teachings and directives. All their crimes fall squarely on him and he harbors no apparent love for any of his followers. He's a fanatic, rather than having genuine care for China, and contrasts strongly with the only other villain in the film, who's a Noble Demon following orders and doesn't get up to nearly the same amount of nastiness as the White Lotus. (and has one of the best fights ever in a martial arts flick against Fei-Hung...Donnie Yen vs. Jet Li? Yes please.)
So, in conclusion/ Pass.
I have watched Once Upon A Time In China 2. Great movie and yes to Kung.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!I actually have quite a number I plan to do over the weekend, in honor of Halloween, beginning with one or two from the amazing Boris Karloff, along with one or two from Bela Lugosi...but there is one horror villain I'd like to get out of the way first...from the novel Pure Hate by Wrath James White and probably the last 'extreme' horror novel I plan to read for the foreseeable future. I give you...Malcolm Davis.
Who Is He?
A dark-skinned giant from the bad parts of Philly, Malcolm is a towering mass of muscle, hate and rage with cruelty and arrogance in abundance. Malcolm has a massive chip on his shoulder for a few reasons: in highschool, Malcolm's best (really, his only) friend Reed slept with Malcolm's girlfriend Natasha....and Malcolm's previous girlfriend Renee. Malcolm went berserk, nearly burning them alive in the house, and was apprehended by the police after almost killing himself in his anger.
Well over a decade later, Malcolm is consumed by hatred towards Reed. Having stalked him for fifteen plus years, Malcolm arrives at his house dressed as an Undertaker one morning, kills Reed's children and rapes and murders his wife, the instrument of the latter murder being the platinum fangs he's had installed in his mouth. He leaves Reed alive, with the promise this is only the beginning.
This of course makes headlines and Malcolm evades capture...more and more steadily comes out as he continues his mission of destroying Reed and anyone who gets in his way.
What's He Done?
Killing Reed's family is only the start. In the past, we learn there've been several serial killers in Philadelphia who've never been caught: The Pine-Street Slasher, who murdered multiple gay men, the Chaperone, who murdered couples, and The Family Man who killed multiple families.
It turns out these were all Malcolm at different phases in his 'career,' mirroring his obsession with Reed in Reed's life: he would pick up men who resembled Reed and kill them to satisfy his hatred. When Reed began dating his wife, he switched to couples. When Reed was married with children, Malcolm went after families to 'rehearse' his attack on Reed.
shortly after the attack, Malcolm is working out in his favorite gym. When one patron recognizes him, Malcolm crushes his throat with a weight and promptly leaves, only regretting he can't work out there anymore. Malcolm continues evading the police, including the two main heroes of the novel. When one of them goes to speak with Reed (Who was initially a suspect, as Malcolm wanted), Malcolm strolls into the house, cuts the cop's throat and terrifies Reed...before leaving again, his intention having been to inform Reed he could kill him at literally any time he chose to, but he plans to savor this.
Malcolm's other target turns out to be his ex-girlfriend Natasha. He coerces one of his old friends from highschool into helping him (the man's wife is also having an affair with the surviving cop-that'll be important later). Malcolm abducts Natasha, rapes her and lets his friend rape her as well before taunting her with the knowledge of how he plans to kill her. He kills several other people over the course of things here with varying levels of brutality, including his own partner and lover in Reed's family's murder. Who looks disturbingly like a younger Reed.
When his 'friend' is killed, Malcolm takes off after the cop and his girlfriend, and attacks them, attempting to rape said girlfriend before he's shot by said cop. Malcolm manages to flee, now the target of a massive manhunt. Killing several more people, Malcolm flees to his old school where Reed chases his down, and where he has Natasha captive. Natasha manages to get loose and use one of his own weapons to deal serious damage before Malcolm kills her and fights with Reed. Both men are mortally injured and it's revealed after Reed slept with Natasha and Renee (Btw, Renee and her family were Malcolm's first victims as The Family Man, just throwing that out), Malcolm attempted to kill him. Reed broke down and confessed he loved Malcolm, who left without a word. Malcolm confessed he loved Reed as well, and that he was attempting to kill that part of himself. Reed offers a last chance at peace between them, and Malcolm responds that he can't forget or forgive and withdraws a gun, shooting Reed through the head.
At that moment, said cop who had tracked Malcolm to the school arrives and without giving Malcolm a chance to defend himself, unloads his gun into him. Malcolm dies with a last snarl of hatred and attempts to raise his gun and kill his executioner before finding he no longer has the strength
Heinousness
Obliterates the baseline and easily sets it for the novel.
Freudian Excuse and Mitigating factors?
Okay, here we go. Malcolm was raised in the bad parts of Philly by his mother, who he seemed to legitimately care for as a child, and his abusive stepfather who taught him to fight. This is somewhat subverted as while it gave Malcolm a hard outlook on life, all his sadism, cruelty and refusal to just let things fucking go is inborn with nobody else to blame but himself. In fact, he got to the point where he left home after almost killing his stepfather in a fight and was suspected of a nasty arson. He was always a budding lunatic and he never so much as thinks of his mother again as an adult, let alone shows care for her.
As far as redeeming qualities go...no, not a one. He was an abusive boyfriend who treated his girlfriends like they belonged to him till he was done. The only person he ever seems to have any affection towards is Reed, after having bullied him to start. However...honestly, this only serves to make Malcolm more vile as he killed literally dozens of innocent people in incredible Disproportionate Rebtribution and for the purpose of destroying the part of him that cared for Reed. Redeeming qualities cease to count for me when you actively go out of your way to do everything to annihilate them. And in his last seconds when Reed offers a chance for them to forgive one another, Malcolm coldly rejects it and executes him.
Initially, Malcolm also notes that he did feel guilt while killing people. In his first actions as The Family Man, he actually covered the faces of the children as not to look at them. Suffice to say he got over this and enjoys his killings immensely, including kids, later. Just about every action he takes towards another person is entirely filled with a need to dominate and destroy and he gets off on pain and terror.
So, in conclusion?
Well, you be the judge, but i say solid, solid, solid keeper, if a more complex example than usual.
The Sleep Tight entry is good, but looks to have been written by somebody whose first language isn't English. Since it's a Spanish film, that wouldn't be surprising. Regardless, I've taken the liberty of polishing it up so it reads a little better:
- Sleep Tight: Believing himself to have been born without the ability to be happy, apartment concierge César Manso only finds satisfaction in making everyone around him unhappy. While he easily upsets and turns most of his tenants against each other, Clara proves to be challenging. He decides to ruin her life for no reason. Every night, he hides under her bed, chloroforms her then rapes her before injecting irritants in her cosmetics and putting cockroach eggs all over her place. During the day, he harasses her with anonymous letters and later frames the cleaning lady's son for it. When Clara's boyfriend finds out, César kills him with a mirror shard and stages his death as a suicide. He also sadistically torments his dying mother by telling her about his deeds and threatens a little girl who knows about his murder of Clara's boyfriend and tries blackmail him. Finding happiness upon learning that Clara is pregnant with his baby, he sends her a letter taking pride in ruining her existence.
edited 26th Oct '16 11:21:51 AM by rosewood47

Unsure about Sir Guy.
Anyway I'll take the lack of interest in Chambers as a sign he doesn't count and move on. (though if anyone has anymore votes for him, there still very welcome). My second candidate from New Tricks is a very different sort of criminal, Alex Close from the Season Seven episode “Dark Chocolate”.
Now to be honest I’m not sure whether he counts or not, but I’ve been advised to post him and see what the reaction is.
Who is he:
Alex Close is the owner and head of a cleaning company; his company runs mostly through the use of illegal immigrants who Close exploits, making small numbers of them do large jobs such as sending only four workers to clean an entire factor, in his own words “you soon figure out the most efficient use of manpower”. He keeps his workers afraid of him to ensure there co-operation.
He’s also a Serial Rapist who uses his business contracts to find and stalk new victims.
What has he done:
Before each rape, Close carefully planned out his attacks, ensuring he always had a detailed knowledge of the surrounding area before he goes after them. His victims are always petite attractive blonde women in their twenties, the type that it was easy for him to overpower. His MO is to secretly follow them, switch off all the lights, and then rape them quickly and silently. Leaving nothing that would allow a trace on him. The only thing the victims have to identify him (save DNA) was the sheer amount of sweat he produced before and during each rape; a sign of the amount of thrill he got from committing each rape.
In 1992 he raped Jean Saunders at the chocolate factory she worked, and then six months later he raped Eileen Harrison at the same factory. The police ordered a massive DNA check on all the men at the factory, however Close managed to get away with it by having another person pretend to be him and give a false sample.
Close’s company was ruined in 2001, when he was caught using and exploiting illegal immigrants from Bangladesh. Forced out of business he left the country for Poland. Where he apparently raped several women as well (we don’t get much elaboration, but he noticeably flinches at the idea of the Polish police getting hold of his DNA).
Returning to England after nine years, Close started a new company with a Polish workforce (again illegal immigrants, its heavily implied he smuggled them in himself) and tried to get the contract on a bakery, so he could rape his latest target. When he failed to, undeterred Close resorted to simply going to shop as a customer multiple times till he knew the layout perfectly, then late one night he broke in and raped Helen Vestry just as she was locking up.
With the investigation going nowhere and the match to the previous rapes the case was given to UCOS, who managed to make the link back to Close, when they realised Close lied in his testimony about never going on the shop floor of the Chocolate factory. Confronting him, Close tried to run for it, but was captured by Brian and Gerry.
Freudian Excuse or any redeeming features:
Absolutely none, he’s a smug, unpleasant and aggressive man even outside of the exploitation and raping.
Heinous Standard:
Close isn’t the only rapist in the series, however as far as I can tell he is the worst. The only other Serial Rapist (who was a date rapist) is entirely off screen, with the investigation being into someone else and them just being a Red Herring.
Another rapist had one confirmed victim, as well as one murder and the implication of more victims. But we never got more than an implication, the episode ending with them investigating into crimes he may have committed earlier on after he was arrested.
Another was claimed to have raped two women, but again that more a side discovery to case and entirely off-screen.
Another man committed statutory rape three times, but it’s a very late discovery with very little elaboration or much evidence. He likewise does appear to love his wife as he stayed with her and went back to her several times (even though originally she was one of his victims). So I don’t think he counts either.
With three confirmed victims, as far as I can tell Close has got the highest number of victims for a straight up rapist.
Now there was a particularly nasty Europhile, a doctor who abused his patients. Who apparently abused dozens of people under his care. Now he would be worse than Close however we only ever meet one of there victims, don’t see much evidence of the others except for it being mentioned by a few parties, and that angle gets relatively little focus as it turns out to be the reason he was murdered. As such I to much is off-screen for him to interfere or count.
Off-screen villainy:
Now once again we don’t actually see the rapes take place, however we do meet two of the victims who give pretty detailed testimonies of what happened to them, and see picture's of the third woman (she died before the episode began).
We likewise get to see how his attack destroyed Eileen’s life, in pretty great detail. Its clearly demonstrated how she could no longer hold down a job, virtually never left her home (and is still living in the same apartment with most of her stuff being unchanged and thus ten years out of date) in the present. She was left so traumatised that any interaction with any unfamiliar man caused her visible distress to the point that even kindly old Jack was too much for her to talk while he was in the room.
Conclusion:
Really I’m not sure, Close is the most heinous straight up rapist in the series, however I’m not sure if he measures up with the other candidates. So I’ll leave this one to the floor.
edited 26th Oct '16 4:29:57 AM by MGD107