During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to The Sultan
@ Scraggle: If that's true, why is Goldtooth from Dirty Laundry on the Film page instead of the Fan Work page?
jjj'No' to Bibidi. Though
is seriously making me want to vote him up.
And yes, the Joker entry should go in Fan Works.
Also, it turns out that the guy who made City of Scars has made quite a couple of Batman indie films, all in the same universe supposedly, one of which adds to Joker's crimes considerably.
The film, dubbed Patient J, which takes place before City of Scars, details a psychologist's interview with the Joker (Played by the same actor from City of Scars, doing a phenomenal job as a fan actor), where he asks him about many of his crimes, of which we get onscreen flasbacks of. Joker is also questioned about his past, and while there are implications that his Killing Joke past is the one in play here.....there are just as many implications that his Batman 1989 past is in play here, so yeah, still no solid excuse.
Anywho, said additional crimes include being stated numerous times to have killed hundreds of people, quite a few of which we see, brutally beating Jason Todd to death with a crowbar, paralyzing Barbara Gordon (Along with HEAVY implications-even more than the original comic had-that he raped her), and murdering Jim Gordon's wife on Christmas and leaving her for him to find.
In the end, the psychologist reveals that he wants the Joker to kill him to give himself a permanent spot in the Joker's legacy, and Joker brutally stabs the man to near-death, maiming him horribly....then leaves him alive just to torment him. Prick.
So yeah, this Joker is now no longer "One of the less-wicked" Jokers we've got.
edited 10th Oct '16 5:59:56 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!I'd say definitely combine his crimes from both films into the entry. They were both made by the same director, they both star the same Joker and Batman actors, and there are no indications that they take place in separate continuities. So yeah, I'll be taking both films into acount while doing his write-up, which should come early tomorrow, if not tonight.
edited 10th Oct '16 6:30:53 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!I was not sure on Bibidi myself due to lack of screentime and personality, it's just that he did have Buu destroy hundreds of planets, and from what we do see, there is enough to establish a pattern, but yeah, He does not get much in the way of personality in his flashback. I was just checking.
Anyway, interesting thing to note: This will be the Joker's fifteenth incarnation to qualify for this trope. With 15 entries, I now dub him the king of this trope.
jjj
Also, I THINK he may be the first CM where the same actor does two different incarnations of the same character.
Well, Irene, I didn't ignore nrjxll's post. And using a recent rebuttal as what, evidence, appeasement, that my complaints were addressed? It doesn't hold up. Nrjxll's rebuttal didn't hold up. I spelt that out.
But I will concede. The Shadow case anyway. If you're really, honestly, up to going through every possible link, that's it. No more inquiries from me until I have done the same. But I also have a proposition. If you include some of this data when you make page edits, link to the relevant posts or leave accurate summaries of the consensus, you might cut back on posts like mine.
I still disagree on Ox Baker, but I'm not going to try and change your minds.
Buldogue's lawyerThat's... not how it works. We put up CM's all the time. From what I know, you can't even link to a direct post in the edit reasons. And even if you could, all we need to do is simple just say "As agreed by the CM thread". That just means that a user who contests it only has to fully research why the character doesn't count, and if they have new information, they can contest it. If they don't, we expect them to not actually do anything more than make a vote(although it's not necessary anyway, since if you aren't re-opening discussion, there's literally no reason for another vote). In the case of Ox, we agreed that it's in severely bad taste to put up a dead actor who clearly was not a fan of being labeled a murder as a character. If it weren't for the two key factors(him not liking his role and him being dead), yes, he would've been put up. But those two changed everything, and it's nothing more than a matter of respect.
That said, how the rules apply for contesting characters really isn't something we discuss on this thread. I forget where(just ask a Moderator), but you can discuss that type of thing somewhere else. The rules are already set in stone regardless. That said, I do agree that Ox really needs to be put in the Never Again list, if only because we need those reasons to be extremely clear.
Shadow?
I think you CAN link to posts in the edit reasons thing; I just use "Approved by the thread
." when changing a YMMV.
According to Satan, at least 6 (and I probably left some out when doing that).
You might add The Fiend from the The Wardstone Chronicles (althought he's not a fallen angel in this universe)
edited 11th Oct '16 8:13:17 AM by Silverblade2
If I remember correctly there's also The Devil from American Horror Story: Asylum
Good lord, I mistook a semicolon for a colon and thought it was saying Saints Row IV Gat Out Of Hell was a sequel to Castlevania Lords Of Shadow.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.You guys can add them yourselves you know
Is anything being done with Monster Fan Works Reformat, or can we just swap the actual fan works page and then cutlist that sandbox?
edited 11th Oct '16 10:02:44 AM by ACW
