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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

YamiVizziniX Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#56501: Apr 12th 2016 at 1:37:48 PM

There are way too may Amons around here of varying degrees of monsterhood.tongue

There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#56503: Apr 12th 2016 at 1:52:44 PM

[up][up] Well, there's that one, this one, Thoth-Amon, Amon Goeth...am I forgetting any?

edited 12th Apr '16 1:56:26 PM by ACW

YamiVizziniX Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#56504: Apr 12th 2016 at 2:03:18 PM

I'll always mainly think of the one from The Legend of Korra. (No, he's not a qualifier, but I figured 0 could fall within "varying degrees".tongue)

There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#56505: Apr 12th 2016 at 2:34:01 PM

Of course not. After all, he's a Tragic Villain. Not a Complete Monster.tongue

edited 12th Apr '16 2:34:22 PM by superboy313

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#56506: Apr 12th 2016 at 5:18:06 PM

Wow, it feels so slow when it takes hours for a new post to come.just bugs mejust bugs mejust bugs me

Anyways, does anyone think Monster.Disney needs a new quote? The current quote isn't mentioning any actual C Ms.

edited 12th Apr '16 5:24:42 PM by Clown-Face

Why so serious?
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#56507: Apr 12th 2016 at 5:47:33 PM

Maybe use Clopin's Riddle: Who is the man and who is the monster? Or maybe use Quasimodo's “The Reason You Suck” Speech against Frollo at the climax.

DeCarta Since: May, 2011
#56508: Apr 12th 2016 at 5:53:45 PM

[tdown] to Elder Arthur Maxson. Not heinous enough.

[up][up][up][up] Yeah, he's the first character of that name I think of, too. And yeah, he'd never qualify; redeeming qualities, Freudian Excuse, Tragic Villain, and he's outclassed in heinousness by most of the other Big Bads (despite his unique crimes, Amon was never confirmed to have killed anyone in canon, although I have theories...)

[up][up][up][up][up] Amusingly enough, one of my unpublished (and therefore unproposable) works has a villain named Amon who I'm quite sure would qualify. BTW, the Huntsman's entry under Disney has his name misspelled.

[up][up] A new quote isn't a bad idea. I'm blanking on any suggestions, though.

edited 12th Apr '16 5:54:37 PM by DeCarta

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#56509: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:21:51 PM

[up] From the Quotes Section, here's a list to choose from:

Milo: You don't know what you're tampering with, Rourke!
Rourke: What's to know? It's big, it's shiny, it's going to make us ALL rich.
Milo: You think it's some kind of a diamond, I thought it was some kind of a battery, but we're BOTH wrong. It's their LIFE FORCE. Their crystal is the only thing keeping these people alive. You take that away and they'll die!
Rourke: Well...that changes things. Helga, what do you think?
Helga: Knowing that...I double the price.
Rourke: (proudly) I was thinking triple.
Rourke showing his willingness to kill the Atlanteans to get rich, Atlantis The Lost Empire

"I've got some children I need to make into corpses!"

"I've got the kids! I think I'm going to kill one of them now just for the heck of it!"

"All my life, you told me that the world was a dark, cruel place. But now I see that the only thing dark and cruel about it is people like you!"
Quasimodo to Frollo, The Hunchback Of Notre Dame

Scar: Sarabi!
Sarabi: Yes, Scar?
Scar: Where is your hunting party?
Sarabi: Scar, there is no food. The herds have moved on.
Scar: No! You're just not looking hard enough!
Sarabi: It's over. There is nothing left. We have only one choice. We must leave Pride Rock.
Scar: We're not going anywhere!
Sarabi: Then you have sentenced us to death!
Scar: Then so be it!
Sarabi You can't do that!
Scar: I'm the king, I can do whatever I want!
Sarabi: If you were half the king Mufasa was...
Scar: *strikes her* I'm ten times the king Mufasa was!

edited 12th Apr '16 9:24:28 PM by Shadao

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#56510: Apr 12th 2016 at 9:26:37 PM

[up]I like the Frollo quote. It goes well with the page image.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#56511: Apr 13th 2016 at 1:18:44 AM

[up] Agreed. Though I wouldn't mind using one by/to/about Bill.

edited 13th Apr '16 1:21:14 AM by ACW

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#56513: Apr 13th 2016 at 5:31:40 AM

[tdown] Magma Dragoon. Sigma is clearly more heinous in Mega Man X4; he's the one who persuaded Dragoon into crashing Sky Lagoon (as well as all of the other manipulation in that game that doesn't involve Dargoon) and Sigma's clearly playing for more heinous stakes.

edited 13th Apr '16 5:32:16 AM by thok

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#56514: Apr 13th 2016 at 5:33:24 AM

I like the Frollo quote.

edited 13th Apr '16 5:33:38 AM by Clown-Face

Why so serious?
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#56515: Apr 13th 2016 at 6:48:46 AM

Multiple pages back, we agreed to cut Tullius from Spartacus show. He is still on the page.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#56516: Apr 13th 2016 at 7:08:09 AM

[up] Are the other 2 still keepers?

speyeker Since: Jan, 2001
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#56518: Apr 13th 2016 at 7:42:47 AM

Without giving away any spoilers, I think today's Agents of SHIELD episode has disqualified Gideon Malick for good.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#56519: Apr 13th 2016 at 7:50:22 AM

[up][up][up] I personally think that, especially Cossutius. I haven't seen Season 3 yet, but from the description I think Nemetes just barely makes the cut too.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#56520: Apr 13th 2016 at 7:56:36 AM

Seems Cossutius has just one (albeit brutal) rape and one torture. Nemetes...he seems like a qualifier. I took care of Tullius.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#56521: Apr 13th 2016 at 8:06:57 AM

[up] Well, it was still pretty disgusting. He is considered the most despicable villain in the show. No reason to cut him.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#56522: Apr 13th 2016 at 8:14:58 AM

[up] Even if it was, one Moral Event Horizon crossing does not a Complete Monster make (especially since I'd guess rape wasn't that uncommon in the series).

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#56523: Apr 13th 2016 at 8:19:03 AM

Well, I vote to keep Cossutius. I will maybe have to rewatch the show but rape is actually not that common. Also, I think we need to stop with "only one victim" thing. Having one victim can also be quite horrible if done brutally (which is a case for Cossutius) and we would have to cut Bogs Diamond by your logic ACW (who also has only one victim).

edited 13th Apr '16 8:19:36 AM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#56524: Apr 13th 2016 at 8:29:32 AM

[up] Fair enough on both points (though in Bogs's case, wasn't the raping a multiple-time thing?).

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#56525: Apr 13th 2016 at 8:29:58 AM

Furthermore, Cossutius is a serial rapist. He makes it explicitly clear he chooses his victim due to her being a virgin, and makes it quite clear virgins don't exist in his household for that reason.

I see no reason not to keep the bastard. In sexual sadism, he's well above his fellow Romans.


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