During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I've nominated several keepers, but their heinousness tends to become less shocking after some participation in this thread.
Dr. Decker, the Serial Killer from Clive Barker's Nightbreed, was one of the few I was just plain revolted by. Cruel, whiny, sadistic, manipulative, cowardly, bigoted, genocidal... what makes it worse is that he's played by David Cronenberg, who's always an incredibly friendly and soft-spoken guy in interviews. So Decker always speaks in this creepy soothing voice like he's trying to put you at ease while he decapitates his next victim or murders another child.
edited 10th Jan '16 4:48:19 PM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"In terms of sheer devastation, the most evil villain I've ever proposed was Bandos from Runescape. In terms of resources, Lheu Brenin from Lord of the Rings Online stood out to me as well for being an entirely human monster in a setting shared by Morgoth and Sauron.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Happy (late) birthday Very Melon!
Worst for me? Probably Palpatine or Dimentio. Both not only tried to destroy a galaxy but a universe too meaning trillions of people would die. They might not be the most psychotic but they don't need to be.
Out of the ones I've proposed? Zant and Dickson are probably the worst. Particularly Dickson for being a Bitch in Sheep's Clothing who acts like a kindly mentor but really wants to end all life on Bionis and Mechonis. Zant is horrible for the fact he took over two different dimensions and while he didn't have the power and influence other villains did, he was a horribly competent antagonist with no redeeming qualities and even willing to be The Starscream against his master just like Dickson and Dimentio.
Oh and Kouran Mori. Even though I didn't propose him, he's a freaking world destroying cannibal rapist who likes younger women and likely would have raped the teenage protagonists if he had the chance. Terumi Yuuki's also pretty bad.
I think the worst character I ever proposed was Captain Charlie Lawson.
The rest are pretty generic (Rotchefort's a sociopathic megalomaniac who enjoys killing, Jack was Ax-Crazy lunatic, Baron Samedi just had no concept of Empathy and Ford is a misogynistic serial killer) Lawson was the only one to be truly vile.
Really I haven't proposed to many villains that are repulsive, over just being pure evil.
I forgot about the Director, who was brought up so long ago that she got a bit forgotten. Basically, she was in charge of an eating disorder clinic, and she would routinely leave porn inside the patients she operated on, force-fed a girl poison until she exploded, tortured four small children, strangled a nurse so hard that her neck oozed blood... like, this chick was AWFUL.
Worst villain I've proposed... Probably Mezzenbone. Like Palpatine if Palpatine was an Omnicidal Maniac and also a dragon.
I haven't proposed any, I've just inquired about two who were removed (and haven't gotten any satisfactory responses yet). Of them though, I think Ox Baker is worse. Honestly I think among heels Perez isn't necessarily the most evil ever. Comando Caribeno and the clusterfuck Premier Athlete/Valifornia are a part of have both proven capable of pulling Eviler than Thou on The Ninjas but I think she's evil enough, qualifies as unique enough in her status and has remained a heel, unlike everyone else who eventually does a Heel–Face Turn, goes through a Heel–Face Revolving Door, benefits from A Hero to His Hometown or can't be listed by virtue of being a group.
Buldogue's lawyerSo, fun related question: who's the worst character you've seen that DIDN'T count as a CM?
Personally, I feel like, if Superjail! wasn't played for laughs, The Warden out-heinouses a massive chunk of our current C Ms. Killing your entire jail's population on a whim every fucking episode, in addition to being so evil that TIME POLICE got involved to stop you before you took over and annihilated the earth, would be an easy yes in a dramatic series.
edited 10th Jan '16 3:09:17 PM by LargoQuagmire
Bill Boss. When I read that conversation, I remember being so confused as to why the people who were supposed to discuss the most evil villains drew the line with talking about him.
The worse villain I ever proposed was Shuichiro Keido, both on a personal and worldwide level.
One of my all time frustrations will forever be Obadiah Hakeswill. A murderer, traitor, rapist, bandit, and sadistic thug of a British sergeant who kills tons of people, has men sentenced to floggings so he can extort their wives sexually to spare them...
But his obsession with his mother leads him to do a single good deed over the course of five appearances in his series.
With Cleek, besides the fact that he raped his own daughter each night, but there was also the fact that he was, simply put, a misogynst who reveled in abusing his wife, and believed that all women should be in the cellar much like the feral woman. Cleek, along with Ruth, are most likely the most evil characters that Jack Ketchum had written.
edited 10th Jan '16 3:32:39 PM by AustinDR
One particular villain I was pretty annoyed couldn't count is the main vilain of a pretty obscure novel, Freeze Kill, about a time-stopping Serial Killer, who did such wondrous crimes as collapsing a woman's skull with scissors in front of kindergartners, bisected a guy, and shoved a lamp post through another's throat, all while freezing time. The only problem was that, somehow, this psychopath seemed to genuinely love one of the main cast.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!I think the worst non CM I've encountered was the villain in the first season of The Bridge that does tons of evil stuff, including causing the death of someone's child all as revenge/an expression of sorrow for losing his wife and child.
It was a difficult instance because his actions are so awful but also so clearly motivated by a loved one (and to a lesser extent anger at political corruption).
edited 10th Jan '16 3:53:28 PM by Hodor2
Trey is a racist Corrupt Hick who leads a group of racist serial killers in murdering Native American people and tortures, rapes and murders a woman who discovered and hindered his crimes. He did one good thing in the whole damn movie, that thing being sending his younger brother away when said woman- who was possessed by an Apache ghost, resurrected and is now seeking gory revenge-arrives for the final battle.
Almost a formality, but
to Gilday. I'm sure he's probably had a beer with George Foyet and/or Anita Roycewood at some point.
Worst I've ever proposed/added... maybe Mandy and Cameron Klinefeld from CSI. If you don't remember them, they were a psychopathic couple who abduct husbands and wives and ask the husband to kill the wife. If he refused, they'd rape the wife non-stop while the husband watched until he agreed to Mercy Kill her. Then they let him go, then follow and kill him too.
"How much do you love your wife...?"
edited 10th Jan '16 3:58:34 PM by HamburgerTime
The two worst villains I am aware of who do not qualify are Bill Boss and Jeffery Keaton.
To give you some context on Jeffery Keaton(since we all know Bill Boss), he's Mr Betty Kreuger's depection of Jeff The Killer. Even though Jeff did not have a last name mentioned in the original story, a lot of fans go with "woods", so it is nice to see someone going with something else. Sadly, that's just about the only positive thing I can say about this version of Jeff. This rendition of Jeff is far worse then any other version out there. In this version of the story, Jeff's brother's name is David, and they killed their mother together before going on a killing spree. After Jeff was caught and sent to an asylum, he slaughtered all the staff and freed the inmates, telling them "Go kill, go rape, go steal". After his escape, Jeff reunited with David and, after killing a teenage girl and her father (and after David raped the girl), they attacked their home town and helped the inmates kill numerous people, before blowing the town up. After his death, Jeff was made into an undead creature by Zalgo, who agreed to fully restore his life if he killed 3000 people and saccraficed their souls to Zalgo so he could be freed from his prison and could bring about the apocalypse. Jeff has already killed many people and made their bodies into furnature, with it being mentioned that one of his victims was a baby that he made into a doll. When he captures the protagonists in his third audio drama, he tries to make them eat the flesh of their dead mother, and threatens to rape the female one with his knife. on top of all this, MBK is making another Jeff audio drama this year. The one thing preventing Jeff from counting is that there are two people he cares about (his brother Dvid and nurse Rachael, the nurse who showed him kindness at the asylum he was in), if Jeff did not care about those two people, either Beast or I would have brought him up by now.
And before you ask, yes, MBK's Jeff audio dramas ARE extremely popular. Sometmes I wonder if there is even such a thing as a "good creepypasta". Why do I even read/watch/lesten to these?
jjj![]()
Lighty's right, though I admit I like some creepypasta, such as "The Russian Sleep Experiment." This
is a classic story I rather like.
@ Lighty Snake: Are you talking about horror films and books, or are there any creepypasta writers you would actually recommend? The only decent creepypasta writer I know of is Slime Beast. As for horror films and such, the only one out right now that I am interested in seeing is Krampus.
jjjI'm talking about actual books.
Horror's a rich genre. Why not check out guys like MR James, Charles Beaumont, Richard Matheson, Arthur Machen or Algernon Blackwood? Or Oliver Onions and Ray Bradbury? All of them have some amazing, eerie horror stories...or more modern ones like Thomas Ligotti, Ramsey Campbell, Robert Bloch, Robert McCammon...
There's tons of great, great stuff out there. You don't need to waste your time on amateur crap written by bored teenagers. You want some great dark as hell horror? Try Rad Bradbury's The Small Assassin, Matheson's Prey, Nightmare at 20,000 Feet and The Children of Zachry...heck, pick up Stephen King's Graveyard Shift and you're good to roll. Or The Best of MR James

Palpatine's still the worst Monster on record for me, but characters like Torquemada rank high on heinous characters I've seen proposed.
As for the most evil/depraved character I've ever proposed... I'd have to say perhaps either Canaletto, Bryagh, or Josh. Canaletto's bad on terms of scale, Bryagh I find rather shockingly evil for a family film, and Josh is just disgusting.
edited 10th Jan '16 1:45:29 PM by Scraggle