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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#40526: Jun 7th 2015 at 12:28:42 PM

[up]Which one? tongue
(Picasso was played by Matthew "Dr. Jack Shephard" Fox.)

edited 7th Jun '15 12:29:16 PM by ACW

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#40527: Jun 7th 2015 at 1:05:28 PM

With Uber btw, we have voted on Markus and Hitler before, so I think I can write them up. The series is about to complete its first half, whereupon it's going on hiatus till 2016, so I'm not sure if I should propose Goebbels yet.

Nithael (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#40528: Jun 7th 2015 at 1:44:44 PM

I remember the villain from Blackhat and yes, I think he qualifies. [tup] to Picasso too.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#40529: Jun 7th 2015 at 2:51:51 PM

Okay that's six [tup] for Rochefort. So I guess he's decided to qualify.

Now I can't add him myself.

But do you want me to write it for someone else to add or not?

edited 7th Jun '15 2:52:27 PM by MGD107

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#40530: Jun 7th 2015 at 2:55:12 PM

[up]You do your own write-up and post in on this forum. Everyone will make suggestions on editing if necessary and then ACW will add it the batch that goes on the Complete Monster page once a week.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#40531: Jun 7th 2015 at 3:55:23 PM

[up][up][up][up] I looked; that's right, Markus is the uber(tongue)-sadistic one, and Hitler is...Hitler. On hiatus until 2016? That sucks (better than Kentaro Miura though).

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#40532: Jun 7th 2015 at 6:56:54 PM

On the fence about Whoreson Jr.

Also I found this quote in the Star Wars YMMV:

->Cosinga Palpatine: Murder has always been in your thoughts, hasn't it? You've merely been waiting for someone to grant you permission to act. ->Sheev Palpatine (the future Emperor): I don't need anyone's permission. ->Cosinga: Precisely. You're an animal at heart. ->Sheev: King of the beasts, Father. —>—Darth Plagueis, before Palpatine murders his family

This should be changed from Sheev to Palpatine since it's not in the same canon anymore and he never got a first name in Legends.

Also for our entry on Tarkin on the page, should we mention what he did in Star Wars Rebels? Namely The execution of Aresko and Grint, arguably the two comic relief villains, along with the torturing of Kanan on orbit around Mustafar, where it is implied the Empire sent surviving Jedi to be excecuted.

edited 7th Jun '15 6:57:13 PM by xie323

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#40533: Jun 7th 2015 at 7:29:00 PM

You know I kind of find it ironic how two of the characters you start the game with in your party in Xenoblade are Complete Monsters (Mumkhar and Dickson). Are there other games where a CM starts on your side? I don't think it's impossible for a Player Character to qualify, just really difficult. If you take control of say a Hitler Captain Ersatz temporarily and have to commit mass genocide against Space Jews, then yeah, they probably could still count. If you literally have no control over their actions (you just control them) they probably could still count.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#40534: Jun 7th 2015 at 7:57:54 PM

[up] We already have two player characters as examples (Ellen from The Witchs House and the Hatred protagonist). Yes, player characters can qualify, but they are extremely rare.

[up][up] Honestly, looking over the page this wiki has for the Tarkin novel, I am wondering why we haven't already expanded his write up to include his acts in that work.

edited 7th Jun '15 7:58:44 PM by bobg

jjj
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#40535: Jun 8th 2015 at 1:00:20 AM

[up]I'm not sure Tarkin does any acts in the novel worth adding. I mean, it's canon, and nothing that disqualifies him,m but nothing that I can recall is worth adding.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#40536: Jun 8th 2015 at 1:25:09 AM

[up] Really? Because I found this on that novels trope page:

Hurl It into the Sun: Tarkin deals with Pirate Girl Q'anah, who's been his Worthy Opponent for some time early in his career in the Outlands Region Security Force, by putting her and her entire crew in a cargo container and setting them on course for a star so that they slowly roast to death while their death screams and pleas for mercy are broadcast throughout the sector. It has the added effect of deterring future piracy in his sector because in a nice example of cruel but Pragmatic Villainy, since Tarkin remains in the area the whole time it takes them to die and whenever more of the pirates' comrades come to rescue them, the Outlands' ships destroy them. Rinse and repeat, until eventually the surviving pirates get the idea and stop coming into Tarkin's territory.

sounds horrible and notable enough to merit a mention.

jjj
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#40537: Jun 8th 2015 at 1:30:30 AM

[up]Oh right, forgot about that. That may indeed be worth adding (even though the victim seems kind of an Asshole Victim herself).

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#40538: Jun 8th 2015 at 7:59:51 AM

I'm impressed with how the write up on Cox turned out. Thank you.

I suggest we wait for Gieger to get a few more votes before we decide whether or not he's a go.

ST89 Since: Feb, 2015
#40539: Jun 8th 2015 at 8:22:31 AM

Any vote for Koster ? He's very similar to Bill Cox if it helps

edited 8th Jun '15 8:25:24 AM by ST89

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#40540: Jun 8th 2015 at 8:35:05 AM

Giving a yes.

People, this has come up a lot and I'm the only one who's commented. Seriously, please don't ignore things and proposals.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#40542: Jun 8th 2015 at 9:52:41 AM

[tup] to Koster.

So lately I've seen the movie See No Evil and there is a character in the movie I think might count, Margaret Goodnight, the mother and controller of this slasher films killer Jacob Goodnight.

Who is she ? What does she do ?

The mother of Serial Killer Jacob Goodnight, who functions as the Dragon-in-Chief to her Non-Action Big Bad. For years, Margaret abused and tortured Jacob, convincing him that he is the Hand of God and must kill people she see's as sinners; even if they so much as have a religious tattoo. In we see Jacob being locked in a cage, drowned in a shower, and Margaret torturing a teenage girl in front of Jacob, pulling out one of the girls eyes and forcing him to see the "evil" in it. As an adult, Jacob is a full serial killer, killing people that are seen as "sinners". At one point, a police officer named Frank Williams shoots Jacob, but Jacob lives and isn't found. Four years later, is taking a group of delinquents to clean up the abandoned Blackwell Hotel in order to turn it into a homeless shelter, in order to reduce the prison sentence. Of course, over the course of the movie, the cast gets picked off, and a girl named Kira is held hostage for her tattoos. When two survivors, Tyre and Christine come to her rescue, Jacob kills Tyre. Margaret arrives and reveals she's behind Jacob's killings, and simply lured them all into a trap. She orders Jacob to kill Kira and when he refuses, she starts to belittle him until Jacob throws her into a wall with nails sticking out. The rest of the climax focuses on the protagonists trying to escape Jacob, following with Jacob's apparent death. Jacob is shown to have survived in the sequel, but Margaret only appears as a corpse in the morgue.

Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Qualities ?

Nope. It amounts to her believing her son to be the Hand of God and torturing him into believing so himself, before molding him into a Serial Killer who targets people she see's a sinners, which puts her in Knight Templar territory. A majority of Jacob's heinousness can be traced back to her, seeing as it was a proxy of her own actions. Her reason for luring officer Frank and the teens of the hotel, was revenge for Frank shooting her son, but from what we see of her relationship with Jacob, she doesn't love him as a son - if at all - rather as a weapon.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#40543: Jun 8th 2015 at 11:47:02 AM

[up] Jacob's page on the villain's wiki stated that he was a CM, though reading your effort post I'd say he's not. [tup] for his cunt of a mother though (pardon the language, please don't report me).

jjj
Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#40544: Jun 8th 2015 at 12:04:47 PM

[tup] to Margaret and Koster, it's probably a good idea to link back to your effort post when looking for more votes.

Speaking of which, can I get some more votes for Jack Shepard?

edited 8th Jun '15 12:06:33 PM by Camberf

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#40545: Jun 8th 2015 at 1:00:40 PM

Okay here is my first attempt at Rochefort's write up, its to long, but I'm not sure what to cut.

The Comte de Rochefort the Big Bad of the Second Season not only manages to outdo his predecessor, but causes more damage than any of the show’s other villains. A former agent of Cardinal Richelieu, realising how unstable and dangerous he was, the Cardinal abandoned him to the Spanish several years earlier. He is introduced almost being hanged by a mob for murdering a man in the village he was spending the night in, upon escaping his first response is to murder the judge who sentenced him before leaving. Originally appearing to have been turned and now working for the Spanish, Rochefort quickly proves to only be using the Spanish and working for no one’s benefit but himself. Managing to build himself up into the king’s favour through fake charm and cunning, Rochefort secretly manipulates and blackmails others, treating everyone as pawns to pave the way for his success. Becoming the Kings advisor, throughout the season Rochefort either creates or manipulates the situations to make the increasingly paranoid king more and more dependent upon him, while at the same time destroying his faith in the heroes. All the while he plans to murder the king and steal the throne for himself (despite lacking any right to the throne). A sadistic man, Rochefort spends the season racking up his body count; in his introductionary episode alone he murders six people. Mentally unstable and Ax-Crazy Rochefort continually kills anyone he deems in his way, a threat to him or just cause he feels like it. Rochefort likewise possesses an insatiable lust for Queen (which he developed as her tutor when she was only thirteen); spending the season under the delusion she loves him, when it finally becomes clear she does not Rochefort tries to rape her. When she manages to response is to reveal her secret affair with Aramis, knowing full well this will lead to her, Aramis and her baby being executed. To incriminate the Queen, Rochefort has him poisoned, just enough that it leaves him in intense agony. He then arrests Doctor Lemay and Constance for the crime, claiming they were acting under the Queen’s orders. To try and force the Queen to confess, he has Doctor Lemay executed without trial and then tries to have Constance beheaded. He then forces the king into signing Anne’s death warrant and then tries to personally strangle her himself. A complete an utter Sociopath, driven by his own ambition and Ego with an underlying level of sadism and bloodlust Rochefort was even able to terrify Milady de Winter, who dubbed him “A mad man.”

edited 8th Jun '15 1:02:22 PM by MGD107

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#40546: Jun 8th 2015 at 1:05:28 PM

So his Freudian Excuse is definitely not a disqualifier?

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#40547: Jun 8th 2015 at 2:00:27 PM

Well he did apparently endure a lot of punishment at the Spanish's hands (his torturer remarked surprise at how long he lasted), however the only reason he was given to the Spanish was cause he was deemed to unstable and dangerous by the Cardinal (and considering he had no problems using and employing several pretty unhinged Psychos For Hire) it seems he wasn't that much better before.

edited 8th Jun '15 2:01:45 PM by MGD107

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#40549: Jun 8th 2015 at 2:48:41 PM

A while back, I got 6 [tup] for Jackal (Emperors, Scraggle, Overlord, Lightysnake, ACW, and Tyk5919), so here is a rough draft write up:

jjj
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#40550: Jun 8th 2015 at 3:05:16 PM

His Freudian Excuse (Rochefort) is definitely not a disqualifier. I've seen the series as well now.


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