During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yeah I looked into that and ultimately I cant really find anything sympathetic or justifiable about Ghual himself, just that Caiatl helped him overthrow her father Callus and that Caiatl regretted helping Ghaul become leader of the Cabal, and that Ghaul's nightmare shows up to torment Caiatl for helping Ghaul, painting Caiatl, not Ghaul, in a sympathetic light.
While Ghaul may have had differing views on how to run the Cabal empire, but the start of the Red War, Ghaul doesn't show any care about the Cabal or the empire and is more concern about obtaining the power of the Traveler's light because he felt entitled to it.
I guess some Cabel view Ghaul as a hero but those are just Red Legion loyalists who are fanatically devoted to Ghaul while the rest of the Solar System, views Ghaul as a monster with whatever sympathy or well-intentions Ghaul may had completely stripped away in favor of obsession with power to Suffice his own ego, greed, and entitlement. So overall I'd say Ghaul can stay
Edited by G-Editor on Oct 6th 2022 at 2:04:47 PM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Film Smaug and Animated Smaug. Animated Smaug kills 5.
Also, a point about Film Smaug: the theatrical Smaug isn't actively working with Sauron yet, but he all but says he would given the opportunity.
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and killsStill thinking about comic Agruss, that said I do have another I with to try
What is the work.
Adventures into Terror 1950 comic series published ba Marvel’s predecesor Atlas publishing. Every issue contained few short horror stories and for this we go back to very first issue.
What is he and what has he done?
Titus H. Crockett is the CEO of his self named company and man who won’t let ethick stand in a way of profit. Appearing in story ” The unknown partner” Titus is introduced threathing his own brother to either pay debt he own’s him or be driven into bankrupcy. Expresing no sympathy for his brother’s plight even as latter is Driven to Suicide right then and there.
One day mysterious man appears seeking a patnership but warning that his partner must be ready to do anything for money. Titus realizing that stranger is absolutely loaded with money gives him a few examples of his business style:
- Closing the old folks home uncaring that many of it’s intabitants have nowhere to go.
- organizing country wide scam that left many war veterans and widow’s of veterans panniless.
- To save money he arranged for cement with to much sand to be used on construction of school. School collapsed with hundreds of kids dead.
Closing his pitch by recalling begining of the story even admiting that he droge his brother out bussines misterious man is conviced and gives Titus his calling card. Titus monologues how he will eventualy cheat even him before looking at card, having literal second to react before dying as we see the name on the card Satan Hades Acres.
Redeming qualities.
No.
Heinousness?
Little harder but for a normal corupt businessman in a self contained 4 page story I thing he makes it mostly for thing with school.
Conclusion.
Leaning yes.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Oct 6th 2022 at 11:55:22 AM
I may read it, but haven't we had candidates before like that? There's Hassam, whose other crimes aren't enough. If he KNOWS it's defective, that may be enough.
Edited by ACW on Oct 6th 2022 at 3:47:49 PM
I mean, maybe the guy counts?
Also, hey, it's been a while...
What's the work?
Fright Night is the famous vampire film by Tom Holland, and this'll kick off just a few CM posts from 43 and I to expand this 'verse. Well, Origins is a retelling of the first movie, that adds new elements and provides for a sequel hook at the end, while also telling the story of Jerry Dandridge and his origins, before his collision with Charlie Brewster.
Our villain is a minor one, seen in Jerry's past. None other than Vlad Tepes. The Impaler.
Who is Vlad Tepes?
The Voivode of Wallachia, and a brutal warlord, who calls his banners to resist the Ottomans. At this time, Jerry, or "Gellert" as he was originally named, is the ruler of a small, but proud and strong territory who deeply loves his wife and people. Upon hearing of the call to arms, Gellert rallies his forces to come to Vlad's side.
The only issue is Vlad is kind of a horrible monster who relishes in massacring his way across the damn continent. Vlad tortures, murdersand oh yeah...impales. His own men for small offenses, Ottoman soldiers....it's all the worst rumors, to Gellert's absolute horror.
Unable to stomach Vlad's depravity, Gellert asks to return home and resign his commission when they judge their lands safe. Vlad agrees...and sends his army ahead of Gellert to massacre his people and home. Gellert returns to find them gone and his beloved wife having killed hersself to prevent Vlad's troops from raping her.
And then a mysterious being shows up, offering Gellert revenge..and so Gellert gives in to darkness and becomes a vampire, taking his revenge on Vlad and his court
<Mitigating issues?
No, he's barely in it, but wow. he's bad. Now, Jerry/Gellert is the prime villain and has killed a ton of people. But it's pointed out that A, he tried to not kill people whose blood he drank, until he grew too old and had to drain them dry to sustain themselves and B, he doesn't enjoy it and tries to hypnotize his victims to feel nothing but pleasure, barring the times he loses control. He's quite charming, Affably Evil and he and his renfield, Wilhem 'Billy" Cole are surprisingly close friends.
Conclusion?
Very easy yes.
Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 6th 2022 at 12:54:46 PM
@acw: Yeah but unlike CHERUB, Marvel is filled with Corrupt Coprorate Executive types who often do and I mean way more damage.
Edit :
Dracula.
Edited by miraculous on Oct 6th 2022 at 12:57:04 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Vlad.
Also this marks the second time an 80's movie vampire had his origins tied to Vlad the Impaler in semi-canon material.
Edit: Oh it's canon!
Edited by Beast on Oct 7th 2022 at 10:50:52 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Vald
@miraculous: It should be noted that this story is marvel only technically and that unlike those corporate executives Titus is’t in charge of mega-corp or in possesion of advanced techology or supernatural powers. I have read most of Adventures in Terror( granted I don’t know how we measure standard of antologies like this) and though indirect Titus is worst found except already listed nazi and maybe one from the last issue on whom I am flip-flopin.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Oct 6th 2022 at 1:10:05 AM

Well apparently
- We Used to Be Friends: Ambient dialogue with the Memory of Ghaul after completing Sever - Resolve reveals that Ghaul genuinely considered Calus as a friend, and only participated in the coup, uncaring of Cabal political rivalries, because he knew Calus's rule would eventually lead the empire to ruin. While he could not face Calus in the eyes for that betrayal, he couldn't turn away from his duty nor let his friendship with Calus blind him to the latter's weakness, either.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."