During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to the Priestess
Yes to the High Priestess.
What's disqualifying about Meridius?
Also, for Zarnovich: "They force humans into Gladiator Games, bury children alive to hear the echoes of their screams, lobotomize 140 psychiatric patients, and even create deadly sports just to find new ways to torture people"...is he part of all of that?
Edited by ACW on Aug 11th 2022 at 9:39:01 AM
It's strongly implied that Meridius is an evil future version of Eddie Brock seeking to create a Stable Time Loop to ensure his own existence, which would disqualify him since Eddie has a sympathetic backstory and people he cares about, and Meridius would be the product of physical and psychological torture inflicted by his own future self.
- Spider-Man, Venom — Carlton Drake is a wealthy industrialist who, paranoid about the end of civilization and wanting to create a utopian New World Order, started the Life Foundation and created an underground bunker for the wealthy elite to shelter in. Seeing everyone other than himself — even his clients — as disposable, Drake had his employees perform unethical experiments and threatened them with death if they disappointed him. Intrigued by symbiotes, Drake had Venom captured and forced his symbiote to spawn five offspring he bonded to a squad of mercenaries. When Spider-Man stopped him from killing Eddie Brock, Drake self-destructed the bunker and escaped. Diagnosed with cancer, Drake blackmailed a university professor into creating a serum that would cure him and give him spider-powers, intending to weaponize it to make super-soldiers. Mutated into a monster, Drake later made a pact with the King in Black Meridius to restore his humanity and bring the Life Foundation back from financial ruin. Aiding Meridius in his plans by sending mercenaries to kill Eddie Brock and attack the Venom symbiote and Eddie's teenaged son Dylan, Drake made a deal with Senator Arthur Krane to elevate the Life Foudation to a position of political power and continued to perform unethical and tortuous experiments on symbiotes.
Edited by Arawn999 on Aug 11th 2022 at 6:45:47 AM
Fair enough.
Please add Drake to the Drafts; and yes, I think I'll do this reformat
.
For Drake: Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist for his name?
Yep, he's one of the antagonists of Venom (Ewing & Ram V). Drake is currently acting as one of Meridius' Co-Dragons alongside Bedlam and Kang the Conqueror, sending mercenaries to torment Dylan Brock and the Venom symbiote while having been given carte blanche to perform all manner of unethical experiments on captured symbiotes.
Consistent? Ehh, no, not really. Sure, in Norman's early years prior to his "death" he was portrayed as caring about his son, but later comics seem to have retconned that to being a front to hide his true nature and preserve his public image. Then he died and Harry took over as the Green Goblin to avenge him. Then Harry died and Roderick Kingsley, Ned Leeds, and Jason Macendale became the Hobgoblin. Then Norman revealed he'd never actually died and had just been in hiding, biding his time and manipulating events from behind the scenes to torment Peter.
After his comeback at the end of The Clone Saga, Norman was just a different flavour of The Sociopath than the Green Goblin — more Lex Luthor than the Joker — and post-OMD saw Harry (or rather, his clone) as a milquetoast disappointment to the Osborn legacy that may as well be crushed under heel if he couldn't be brought to heel.
In fact, the only meaningful interaction with Harry's clone prior to Dark Reign that I recall Norman having is cuckolding Harry by getting Lilly Hollister pregnant, IIRC to create a worthy heir. After that, their next meaningful interaction was in Dark Reign since Norman was too busy running the Thunderbolts, S.H.I.E.L.D. / H.A.M.M.E.R., and the Dark Avengers. After that Norman went to prison, broke out and founded the Dark Avengers 2.0, let the Green Goblin take over and found the Goblin Nation, got depowered and became an international arms dealer, tried to learn magic to reawaken his dormant Green Goblin alter, and bonded to the Carnage symbiote to become the Red Goblin. Harry, meanwhile, got a job at Parker Industries — at least until that went belly-up and he jumped ship to Alchemax — and disavowed his family name, wanting less than nothing to do with his father.
While Harry reclaimed the Osborn name post-Go Down Swinging, he wanted even less to do with Norman after that. After spending some time with his consciousness suppressed and supplanted by that of Cletus Kasady, Norman took over Ravencroft under Mayor Kingpin's orders until the Sin-Eater purged him of his evil, rendering him a mild-mannered man horrified by all the things he'd done over the years and seeking to atone for his sins.
Note: I agree that as he is now, Norman doesn't qualify anymore. I just felt some additional context was needed as to why he was crying over Harry's body.
Edited by Arawn999 on Aug 11th 2022 at 9:18:25 AM
Petition to expand on General Dreykov's entry. I feel it's leaving out some important stuff. My suggestion:
Black Widow (2021): General Dreykov is the man who runs the Red Room. Having abducted or purchased numerous girls, including Natasha and Yelena, Dreykov subjects them to nightmarish training to become "Widows", assassins whom he can use while having murdered Natasha's mother for trying to find her daughter. With horrific training that sees only one in twenty girls survive- along with those who fail their assignments being forced by him to kill themselves- Dreykov later turned his injured daughter into a brainwashed assassin after she was scarred, and intends to use his Widows to enact enough chaos and death across the world that he might control things from the shadows. Dreykov each of the Widows he's taken as nothing more than the recycling of a "useless resource" in the girls he corrupts and destroys and leaves them all to die- including his daughter- at the destruction of the Red Room so he can save his own skin.
The page for Ang Probinsyano (2015) has a Complete Monster entry that was definitely not approved by the thread. Apart from lumping two of the antagonists (Renato Hipolito and Lucio Santanar) together and the entry being of not very good quality, it violates the two-week rule since an episode has just been released today. While both men qualify, I think the offending troper should wait until the show ends (which it will tomorrow) and two weeks pass before he submits an effortpost to this thread.
I'm pretty sure it's a blatant violation of procedure, permission to cut?
to the cannibal of Kung Fu Panda
- Battle for the Planet of the Apes: Marvel UK 1974 adaptation: Governor Breck is yet again a xenophobic, genocidal monster now seeking to reestablish humanity as the dominant species over Apekind. After a nuclear war, Breck now leads an army of Mutants and plans to destroy Ape City and all of its inhabitants including the humans they made peace with. Even perfectly willing to use the Alpha-Omega Bomb to destroy the city should he perish. Breck leads an assault on the city where he kills ape soldiers by the dozen, not caring his own troops get caught in the crossfire, and massacring most of Aldo's men during the battle. Breck goes on to destroy the barrier in order to continue his crusade to raze Ape City to the ground.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Aug 11th 2022 at 11:33:57 AM
