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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#312551: May 20th 2022 at 8:21:31 PM

@Lighty, @Scraggle I concur.

@Ordeaux He still keeps based on his tier though, so we'll see what happens.

[up]That's really, really long.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 20th 2022 at 8:22:50 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#312552: May 20th 2022 at 8:27:16 PM

Honestly, that EP isn't that long I read through it. It sounds like Afton is a [tup] but I will admit some of the torture's comedic stuff is a bit concerning but if it is mostly treated as karmic mostly then I would be fine. I am not sure how I feel about your callout of Dood though is that really warranted?

I--Vanya--I Hantengu, the Upper Rank 4 from Belarus Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Hantengu, the Upper Rank 4
#312553: May 20th 2022 at 8:29:03 PM

[up]I tried to keep it as polite and neutral as I could. I'm sorry if I came off as too rude. But it was a point I had to address. And yes, his tortures are treated entirely as Laser-Guided Karma.

"Ever since the day I was born, I've never once uttered a lie! I'm a virtuous weakling! As pitiful as I am, nobody shows me any sympathy!"
SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#312554: May 20th 2022 at 8:30:16 PM

Can I have a response to that video of the Master last page?

Get Snuck-Up On.”
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#312555: May 20th 2022 at 8:31:19 PM

[tup] to the Master Video and Rileys quote

Bow to the Prototype
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#312556: May 20th 2022 at 8:42:24 PM

[up][up]It's a good video. May be a little long though.

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#312557: May 20th 2022 at 8:43:40 PM

1:44 minutes long. I think I’ve actually proposed and gotten longer approved

Edited by SailorVenus372 on May 20th 2022 at 8:43:55 AM

Get Snuck-Up On.”
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#312558: May 20th 2022 at 8:45:45 PM

The maximum length is 2:30 so that is fine.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#312560: May 20th 2022 at 9:12:13 PM

Ill give a tentative [tup] to William. Is the torture stuff basically an adaptation of UCN? He went through some hilarious BS torture in Canon too(Man is Forced to listen to Mr.Hippo's life stories whenever he kills him, and is forced to watch Anime as well as help Toy Freddy play 'One night at Mr.Hugs' to avoid getting killed by him)

Edited by Snoketrope on May 21st 2022 at 12:56:08 PM

Bow to the Prototype
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#312561: May 20th 2022 at 9:29:00 PM

Switching to a no on Numb now that people with better understanding of the HS than I have chimed in

DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#312562: May 20th 2022 at 9:45:54 PM

Did someone mention me?

If the torture is more sporadically comedic than I remember than I'm down to say sure to Ol' Willy. He's indeed taken dead seriously when he actually shows up, and the sillier shit is completely offscreen.

Edited by DoodSlayer136 on May 20th 2022 at 9:47:45 AM

I--Vanya--I Hantengu, the Upper Rank 4 from Belarus Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Hantengu, the Upper Rank 4
#312563: May 20th 2022 at 9:49:42 PM

[up][up][up]Partially. Only the "Ultimate Custom Night" torture chamber is an adaptation of Ultimate Custom Night. The other tortures are what you expect from your typical Fire and Brimstone Hell: flayed alive and force-fed his own flesh, had organs sliced off, forced to listen to bad music...with headphones painfully impaled into the head with spikes, among other things.

Oh, and the anime cutscenes were completely Adapted Out from this version of UCN.

Edited by I--Vanya--I on May 20th 2022 at 7:56:08 PM

"Ever since the day I was born, I've never once uttered a lie! I'm a virtuous weakling! As pitiful as I am, nobody shows me any sympathy!"
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#312566: May 20th 2022 at 11:36:30 PM

[tup] Bertram and Afton. [tdown] Scar and Numb Chandelier.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#312567: May 21st 2022 at 12:01:22 AM

Afton's EP is nearly 2,500 words; please try and trim it.

Numb Chandelier honestly seems at least as bad as Shrieker.

Yes to Bertram.

I--Vanya--I Hantengu, the Upper Rank 4 from Belarus Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Hantengu, the Upper Rank 4
#312568: May 21st 2022 at 12:13:09 AM

[up]How short an EP should be? Like, what is the maximum amount of words acceptable for an effortpost?

"Ever since the day I was born, I've never once uttered a lie! I'm a virtuous weakling! As pitiful as I am, nobody shows me any sympathy!"
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#312569: May 21st 2022 at 12:22:05 AM

There's no set limit, but even 2,000 is a LOT. Anything above 1,500 and I tend to not always read it. Nearly 2,500 is EXTREMELY long, especially for a single fanwork.

Edited by ACW on May 21st 2022 at 3:22:22 PM

I--Vanya--I Hantengu, the Upper Rank 4 from Belarus Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Hantengu, the Upper Rank 4
#312570: May 21st 2022 at 1:52:41 AM

Trimmed the EP down as best as I could. ...Better?

"Ever since the day I was born, I've never once uttered a lie! I'm a virtuous weakling! As pitiful as I am, nobody shows me any sympathy!"
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#312571: May 21st 2022 at 3:50:45 AM

Hmm, Afton seems like a yes.

But his the fact he had an abusive father mentioned as an explanation—not necessarily a justification—for him turning out so bad?

I--Vanya--I Hantengu, the Upper Rank 4 from Belarus Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Hantengu, the Upper Rank 4
#312572: May 21st 2022 at 4:05:28 AM

[up]Yes. It serves as an explanation as to how he became evil, but the story, and the characters, make it clear that it doesn't justify any of his atrocities.

"Ever since the day I was born, I've never once uttered a lie! I'm a virtuous weakling! As pitiful as I am, nobody shows me any sympathy!"
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#312573: May 21st 2022 at 4:34:03 AM

Hmm...because I think it was said that a Freudian Excuse doesn't necessarily have to serve as a justification for it to be disqualifying; I want to hear others' thoughts, if nothing else so we can get a guideline.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#312574: May 21st 2022 at 4:49:16 AM

[tup] Afton.

Having seen Multiverse of Madness, I can agree that Scarlet Witch doesn't count. She has many sympathic moments, and not just before her Face–Heel Turn, sincerely loves Vision and her made up children, and seemingly dies via an Heroic Sacrifice when she realizes how much of an monster she ultimately became. The heinous standard is definitely rising though.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#312575: May 21st 2022 at 4:52:25 AM

Yeah typically it is about whether it is still used as an explanation or if they are shown to be severely traumatizing, with this specific instance it does not sound like it is given that much weight

Bow to the Prototype

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