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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#286076: Oct 29th 2021 at 2:52:19 PM

[tup]Clements

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#286077: Oct 29th 2021 at 3:00:03 PM

[tup] Clements

Eh, what the hell, I'll just upload my write-ups now. BTW discussion of The Good Life will be delayed, as I'm not yet through with that game.

  • "Bayou": Jake Morgan is a wealthy, grotesquely obese Southerner who makes most of his money by secretly running a human trafficking operation. Having kidnapped hundreds of young women to be sold into sexual slavery, Morgan also has those who cross him fed to his pet alligators.
  • Furious Road: Evil Ash, as cruel as ever, leads the Deadites in his successful scheme to plunge the world in a Deadite apocalypse. Seeking to wipe out Ash and the survivors before they can complete the banishing ritual, Evil Ash has a cathedral slaughtered just to see the looks on the survivors’ faces when they arrive. After Dracula rescues his daughter Eva and the Necronomicon Ex-Mortis from Evil Ash’s clutches, Evil Ash persuades one of Dracula’s brides into killing the other two brides in return for blood, before murdering her and crucifying the three just to spite Dracula, before leading an attack on a monastery with the intent to wipe out all the monks inside and claim the Necronomicon for himself.
  • Female Prisoner Sigma (2006):
    • Saionji Shozo is the chief of the prison, and a spirit medium whose diet consists of the souls of the despaired. Known as the Don of the Japanese underworld who also makes a living helping fixers involved in criminal activities, Shozo imposes harsh brutality in his prison, allowing his staff to torture and rape the inmates as they please to mentally break their spirits for him to consume.
    • Warden Shibayama is the sadistic associate of Shozo who gleefully partakes in the consumption of despaired souls. Having his prisoners tortured and raped to his liking, Shibayama also keeps some around as pets with the promise of better treatment, only to value them as regularly abused sex slaves. Those who refuse to become his pet are sent to the Special Housing Unit One, a cell where the prisoners are mentally broken and ritually sacrificed by Shibayama to feed himself and Shozo. Torturing Ryo Kanzaki until she reveals the truth of why she came to his prison, Shibayama forces her to stay awake for five days straight, while having those close to her whipped and brutalized.

It's Spooky Month!
Nathanoraptor Since: Oct, 2010
#286078: Oct 29th 2021 at 3:05:16 PM

So I have been rewatching a series on Amazon Prime and have found an interesting candidate.

What's the Work?

Truth Seekers is a science-fiction/horror series about Gus Roberts (Nick Frost), an engineer and paranormal investigator who, whilst initially annoyed when his boss Dave (Simon Pegg) partners him with newbie Elton John, is pleasantly surprised to find himself repeatedly encountering the paranormal - later, they meet Astrid, a young woman who is chased through a house and later a hospital by several ghosts. On their journey, they discover a plan by a dark cult to bring about a catastrophe during an eclipse... its leader is Peter Toynbee.

Who is He?

Peter Toynbee (Julian Barratt... yes, Howard Moon) is a paranormal metaphysician who seeks to Ascend to a Higher Plane of Existence and achieve eternal life in another dimension called Eternis. To this aim, he stole a page from a Satanic Book of Shadows (implicitly murdering his own mentor to use his body parts to get past the security). Forming a cult in order to carry this out, he manipulated, among other, Gus' wife Emily, murdering her to serve as a test to ensure his calculations were correct about the numbers of sacrifice he needed.

In the present day, Toynbee gives a talk at a comic convention meant to brainwash his audience into a comatose state and implants nanobots into them, granting him control of their minds, eventually brainwashing over 200 people. In order to Toynbee murders one of his implanted followers in order to test the nanobots and manipulating his loyal assistant into transferring her consciousness into into the Ellexatron, a jamming machine that that will enable him to ascend, trapping her inside it.

Calling his brainwashed cultists to his headquarters during the Eclipse, Toynbee smugly reveals that he never intended to let anyone ascend to Eternis with him, activating the nanobots in order to kill his followers and fuel his ascension. Unfortunately, Gus' boss Dave and his assistant Bjorn manage to activate the Smyle 8G network (long story), which prevents the nanobots from detonating. This means that, when Toynbee slits his own throat, he dies, finally ending his miserable life.

Any Mitigating Qualities?

Nope. All of his messianic talk about "ascending to an eternal Eden"? Bullshit, designed to manipulate people into serving his goals. In reality, he's a narcissist with delusions of grandeur who plans to ascend to godhood and doesn't care who he has to hurt to do it.

Whilst he acts polite to his followers, it's all an act to keep them on his side. In reality, he sees them as merely pawns, willing to manipulate and brainwash them for his own benefit and having no qualms about disposing of them when their usefulness has ceased.

Even his loyal assistant isn't safe; Toynbee manipulates her into getting her consciousness transferred into a jamming machine when Gus and Elton enabled its previous occupant to ascend - trapping her in it forever. Toynbee shows not an iota of guilt at doing this, casually dismissing her fear and even forgetting her name.

Heinousness

Now, this is hard to quantify, as Toynbee only really starts playing a prominent role in Episode 4 and doesn't even meet the protagonists until the final episode. However, he proves to be the most depraved antagonist int he story - his followers, incidental ghostly threats and even his own mentor (who brutally vivisected his daughter's dog) fail to outclass him in sheer evil.

Toynbee is perfectly willing to manipulate, brainwash and kill anyone who gets in his way of his plan to ascend godhood, not expressing an iota of remorse at this - even his own followers aren't safe. Even his own benefactor, the superbeing known as Jojo 74, considers him a "prick" and states that, in her opinion, he went too far.

So, he more than checks out.

Conclusion

I don't see a bar to Toynbee counting here. He's a sadistic narcissist with delusions of godhood who will brainwash, manipulate and kill anyone for him to achieve the ascension to divinity that he fanatically believes is his right.

So [tup] from me.

Edited by Nathanoraptor on Oct 29th 2021 at 11:17:04 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#286079: Oct 29th 2021 at 3:19:02 PM

Sure to Toynbee.

Jackie, any other MI candidates?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#286081: Oct 29th 2021 at 3:24:40 PM

[tup]Toynbee

[up][up]I'm also curious. As the main page for the MI show has a bunch off horrible sounding dudes. From a guy who blows up a bus filled with pensioners to incite the troubles so he can profit off them to people trying to recreate the Reich to arms dealer who plans to sell plutonium to various terrorists and dictators.

Edited by miraculous on Oct 29th 2021 at 3:25:02 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#286082: Oct 29th 2021 at 3:39:35 PM

Wow...so new page when [lol]

Seriously though, we got 2? film candidates, three from TV, and there may be more.

Also, speaking of pages, I'm requesting locking of Daredevil and Ghost Rider when I submit the batch. If there are more, I'll just create a Sandbox.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#286083: Oct 29th 2021 at 3:53:51 PM

Speaking of Daredevil.

  • Issues #124-125 & Daredevil/Spider-Man: Copperhead started off as Lawrence Chesney, son of a man who modeled for the cover of a pulp magazine called Copperhead. Lawrence's father felt the publishers cheated, so after his death Lawrence took the mantle of the Copperhead character and enacted his revenge. Copperhead began killing criminals and killed a cop who tried to stop him, but quickly establishes himself as a creepy Serial Killer, who puts pennies on the eyes of the victims he just killed. After Copperhead killed one of the publishers for revenge, he was stopped from killing the other publisher by Daredevil, and died while fighting him. Copperhead went to hell after he died and made a Deal with the Devil, returning to Earth as an undead lich. At this point, Copperhead, who lost any of his Knight Templar qualities or possible love for his father, and was fueled by a burning hatred of Daredevil, gathered other B-list Daredevil villains (Owl, Gladiator II, and Stilt-Man), and began a violent turf war with The Kingpin, which cost the lives of many people. Copperhead used those deaths as sacrifices to the Devil, gathering power from those deaths and using it transform part of New York into a version of Hell. Copperhead plans to sacrifice Dardevil and Spider-Man to open a portal to Hell and cause the downfall of mankind. Copperhead also torments his allies with nightmarish illusions, intending to do the same the rest of the world.

Is there a reason this guys writeup is so long? I understand Bullseye but this guy apparently only appears in two issues and one crossover.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Oct 29th 2021 at 3:59:16 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#286084: Oct 29th 2021 at 3:58:15 PM

So uh weird question. Some of the CM Versus CM which I was looking over seemed off.

Aren't Chiffre and Greene just Blofeld's minions (retconned in lol). They don't face off against each other.

Boddicker and Dick kinda argue a bit but their still on the same side

Sams with 500 and jang seok

Some of these seem to be confusing boss/lackey relationships with fighting each other on opposite sides?

[up]Why is that entry so long. Like it's nearly to/the same size of Larry and Bullseye and they've been around for decades.

Edited by miraculous on Oct 29th 2021 at 3:59:58 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#286085: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:02:31 PM

That's true...Mister Fear at least can get a long entry, but not sure Copperhead needs one.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#286086: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:03:49 PM

@mir I'm good with getting rid of the Jones vs. Clarence one. As for the ones with Le Chiffre & Greene vs. Blofeld, he has White kill both for their failures and that's why I thought they fit. Blofeld and White also had Greene plotting against Medrano too, so I thought saying Blofeld opposed Medrano was appropriate too.

Anybody have thoughts on my RoboCop questions from the other page?

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Oct 29th 2021 at 4:05:19 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#286087: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:04:07 PM

Coyote's writeup is just as long and he appears in the same amount as Cooperhead.

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#286088: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:05:20 PM

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=9727#comment-243173

Edited by WetFlannels on Jan 10th 2024 at 11:41:08 AM

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#286089: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:05:43 PM

Another who can probably get trimmed.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#286090: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:07:25 PM

Speaking of the sand boxes mainly MB Versus CM.

Do Ares and Ludendorff ever come into conflict? Because they are listed. I don't think they interact beyond Ares whispering in his ear.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#286091: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:07:41 PM

I have a new one for Coppperhead.

  • Issues #124-125 & Daredevil/Spider-Man: Copperhead started as Lawrence Chesney, who took the mantle of the Copperhead character and enacted his revenge. Copperhead began killing criminals and killed a cop who tried to stop him, but quickly establishes himself as a creepy Serial Killer, who puts pennies on the eyes of the victims he just killed. Copperhead went to hell after he died and made a Deal with the Devil, returning to Earth as an undead lich. At this point, Copperhead was fueled by nothing more than a burning hatred of Daredevil, began a violent turf war with The Kingpin, which cost the lives of many people. Copperhead used those deaths as sacrifices to the Devil, gathering power from those deaths and using it to transform part of New York into a version of Hell. Copperhead plans to sacrifice Daredevil and Spider-Man to open a portal to Hell and cause the downfall of mankind.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#286092: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:08:44 PM

[tup] to Toynbee

Anyone else want to vote for Clements?

Granted Clements already got more than enough votes but more is always nice

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#286093: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:09:21 PM

[tup] Clements

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#286094: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:10:28 PM

@Bull Ares uses Ludendorff and sets him up to die. Their goals are also in sync to a degree, so that's why they'd also be a team up.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#286095: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:13:12 PM

Yeah but that is not really versus. He just doesn't care if he lives. I think that is streching the definition of versus. I also don't remember him setting him up to die just not caring.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#286096: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:14:22 PM

@ACW: Oh, there will be more MI. It’ll take a while, but there will be more for sure.

It's Spooky Month!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#286097: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:15:04 PM

[up][up][up]Uh future Ares flat out says he just give him the idea.

And then let him do whatever he wanted. He most definitely didn't cause his death as that was Diana.

Edited by miraculous on Oct 29th 2021 at 4:15:22 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#286098: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:20:10 PM

I've got a candidate from the Spyro franchise that hasn't appeared to be discussed. Is it alright to pitch them?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#286099: Oct 29th 2021 at 4:20:36 PM

Sure.

All yours.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]

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