During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Manaka
Alright, second Sigma proposal incoming.
Who Is He?
Warden Shibayama is Shozo’s second-in-command who’s in it only for the power and pleasure.
What has he done?
Shibayama, tasked by Shozo to break the prisoners’ spirits, regularly rapes them, keeping some around as pets in return for better treatment (not like it means much, since he still treats them like sex slaves regardless), while personally torturing those who refuse to join him. The ones who go through his torture or refuse to join him are sent to the prison cell known as Special Housing Unit One, where the sad prisoners are killed by Shibayama in a ritual, with their souls given to Shozo. It’s later revealed that Shibayama is of supernatural origin like Shozo, regularly feeding on the despaired souls alongside his boss.
Asking Ryo Kanzaki why she really went to his prison, Kanzaki tells him that it’s to atone for her sins. Not believing this, Shibayama decides to brutally torture her until she reveals the truth, from forcing her to stay awake for five straight days, to having her tortured by his guards. When Kanzaki’s prison mate Sanae spits in Shibayama’s face after refusing to lick his boot after going through torture, Shibayama throws her into Special Housing Unit One to be sacrificed to him and Shozo, even looking forward to devouring her soul. Failing to complete the ritual thanks to Kanzaki’s arrival, Shibayama decides to kill himself rather than risk being murdered by Shozo.
Redeeming Qualities?
Zero. Like Shozo, Shibayama only cares about the power he wields over the helpless, with the souls he consumes as a bonus.
Heinousness?
While he’s only Shozo’s #2, Shibayama participates greatly in sexually harassing and torturing the prisoners for his own sadistic desires.
Conclusion
Another solid keeper, I believe.
It's Spooky Month!Yes to him.
BTW, if that Nasuverse candidate DOES count, I'm wondering if it's not time for a page. Only 7 I think, but spread across visual novels, AniManga/Light Novels, and video games.
EDIT: Also, I reiterate my issue
with Rocha.
Edited by ACW on Oct 29th 2021 at 3:43:45 PM
Oberon seems bad; I assume it's him being a Graceful Loser that disqualifies him?
Yeah.
- Oberon Vortigern, as he falls to his demise, shows this off as he notes that his goal of destroying Fairy Britain was at least accomplished and wishes Chaldea luck in their adventures, having grown to like them.
Manaka Sajyou.
For the Gilgamesh mention, Gil's issue really is that he has some pretty clear redeeming traits. Heinousness and Moral Agency were something that he easily did fulfill.
Also, given that Fate is a confirmed multiverse...then she does't count in The 'Verse in general too? (Not that she disqualifies her at all)
Lord Sulla
Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 29th 2021 at 3:12:09 AM
Watch me destroying my countryI have to ask as i just looked it up, is sigma a pure exploitation film or something? Does it have enough of a plot and story for it to have a qualifier?
in that case,
Shozo and Shibayama
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ok good to know, I figured considered it looked really low budget when I looked it up, but obviously it wouldn’t be fair to judge it based on that.
Edited by Mediawatcher on Oct 29th 2021 at 1:22:35 AM
![]()
When it comes to exploitation movies, it depends on if there's just enough of a plot, or has some meat on its bones. With Sigma, aside from one gratuitous sex scene, it's actually pretty tame for a Women in Prison movie. There's enough of a story involving Kanzaki investigating what happened to her sister, and it ends on a pretty happy note. Its lack of budget prevents said story from being properly fleshed out, but it's still there.
Edit: What 43 said.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Oct 29th 2021 at 1:20:31 AM
It's Spooky Month!Also for the length issue ACW's brought up? I would like to see this addressed as well. Yes there's a time for longer EPs but I'm leery to remind people because we also have evidence that multi-book/series-wide/whatever villains can be summed up in under 2000 words and I'm almost certain to not vote on candidates breaching that without hearing multiple people who've consumed the work backing it. I'd very much like if we could get in the mindset of concision and if a villain does something like destroy planets at different points in the work, we don't have to detail each time: just "They repeat this action throughout the work" is sufficient.
Sorry about the length of my EP. Since Manaka had clear-cut or potential redeeming factors that she ultimately subverted, I wanted to make the line of logic clear as can be.
I can try to cut the length, but I'm not sure it'll be by a substantial amount.
Edited by erazor0707 on Oct 29th 2021 at 3:27:14 AM
Would Sellars go in the Film section on the RoboCop page or would we create a Muliple Works section? I think just the film section, but I'm good either way. Also, instead of "Bye-bye baby!" as the image caption, any personal reason we don't have "Sayonara RoboCop!" instead?
Also also, we want to maybe change RoboCop (1987) to 1987 film?
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Oct 29th 2021 at 1:49:39 AM
to Sulla, Shibayama and Manaka
Hey guys, so I’ve got another candidates from a movie I saw on the plane coming back to Honolulu. The movie is called SAS: Red Notice so lets talk about it
What’s The Work?
SAS Red Notice is a 2021 action thriller film directed by Magnus Martens, based on the novel of the same name. The basic is this Ruby Rose’s character, Grace Lewis,hijacks a train on its way to France holding the people aboard the train hostage to get 500 Million ransom from the Britgaz gas company. However she is not the candidate I’ll be discuss but rather the person who led her to cause this event, George Clements.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
George Clements is a SAS Commander sent by Britgaz to clear out settlements in the way of a gas pipeline that the company planned to build in Georgia. Clements would hire the private military company led by Grace’s father, William, called Black Swans, where Clements would conduct multiple massacres throughout the fictional Gveli Pass having the his forces and the Black Swans burned down a village and slaughter countless innocent men, women, and children, even having many burned alive.
However one of the children hiding from Clements recorded the atrocities he and the Black Swans committed where Britgaz and the corrupt prime minister would order Clemments to kill William and all the members of Black Swan, to cover up there own involvement in those massacres. Thus Clements would arrive in William’s estate and kills William and all of his soldiers and servants.
However William’s daughter, Grace, and her squad survives, but the death of her father at the hands of Clements caused Grace to hijack a train and hold all the people aboard there hostage, to demand Clements and Britgaz to had over 500 million pounds in exchange for there safety.
However Clements doesn’t cares about the hostages and demands a swat team to go there to kill Grace and her squad uncaring that they would kill the innocent hostages in retaliation. Of course the assassination attempt fail leading to many of the swat officers getting killed much to Clements indifference, and when going to the train to negotiate with Grace Clements lets Grace kill one of his own men Major Bisset.
Grace would tell Clements that she plans to blow up the train which would kill him unless she gives her 500 million, which Clements eventually decides to do, but only so that he doesn’t die and when Grace does release the hostages albeit having them put their hoods up so that they don't get recognized, Clements orders his men to shoot at all the hooded hostage, hoping that Grace is one of them, while not caring if he does kill any of the innocent hostages.
However, Declan Smith overrides Clement’s orders and only has four people who are Graces subordinates, which Clements responds by trying to kill Smith for disobeying him along with the fact that Declan is revealed to be the snide working for Grace. Once all the hostages escape Grace blows up the train killing Clements and his soldiers, while Declan would tell Clements that everyone will now know what Clements had done in Georgia before he dies.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?
All that was known about Clements that he was hired by the company Britgaz to clear out villages in the area where they plan to establish a new pipeline. Basically Greed is the only reason why Clements commits his atrocities and when Grace threatens to expose his war crimes, cowardice becomes another factor willing to have the hostages and even his own men killed just to kill Grace and save his own ass. So yeah there’s nothing redeemable nor sympathetic about this bastard.
Heinousness
Now Clements has to compete with Grace in this department given that, she hijack a train full of innocent people and threatening to blow the train up unless her demands are met, but Clements is basically the reason why Grace is doing this crime, given that Clements had betrayed her family having personally killed her father and threw the rest of her family under the bus.
Let’s also not forget that Clements was behind the massacres in Georgia with one of them being shown onscreen where Clements sets a entire village ablaze killing almost everyone there with some victims even being burned alive and in the present was willing to let his own soldiers and the hostages die just so that he can kill Grace so that she won’t expose him as the greedy monster that he truly is.
Now there is the prime minister and Britgaz who did sent Clements to Georgia to clear the settlements but they don’t directly partake in these war crimes, which leaves Clements to do all the ground work and personally partake and order in all the atrocities in Georgia. So yeah, I do believe that Clements does more than enough to stand out.
Final Verdict
I’ll leave it up for you guys.
Edited by G-Editor on Oct 28th 2021 at 11:22:19 PM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff@ACW: Rocha enslaves people in the Western Precinct forcing them to preform slave labor by holding their loved one hostage, would kill them and nail their corpses for his slaves to see, has a building full of innocent people slaughtered for not meeting his demands. I'd say that Rocha is bad enough
Edited by G-Editor on Oct 28th 2021 at 11:15:22 PM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff

Was sorta wondering about her.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."