Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Just to be confusing, apparently.

IIRC it was actually so MAX!Frank could age in real-time.

And Ambar, another example: Warhammer 40K has only 2 (Abaddon and Bile).

Friggin' continuity. Ok, then how about a separate page listing both Punisher MAX and Nick Fury MAX?

From The Farseer Trilogy by Robin Hobb

• Complete Monster: Regal, in spades. Thinks nothing of murdering his own teenage nephew with his bare hands, partly to cover his tracks and partly because he just hates him; enjoys torturing people and having them tortured, including his own subordinates; kills his own father and tries to kill his own brother (several times); is incredibly self-centered with delusions of grandeur; villifies his heroic brother and sister-in-law as incompetents and traitors (respectively); sacrifices half the kingdom to Chaotic Evil pirates because he only cares about being king of the other half... yeah, he's kind of a dick. His only chance of redemption turns out to be Brainwashing for the Greater Good, and that still doesn't save him from some well-deserved Laser-Guided Karma.

=> So far his only reedeeming quality is the fact he loved his mother and tried to avenge her death thinking his father killed her while in fact, she died from drug addiction. But otherwise, every aspects of him is awful.

If he loved his mother, then

In Harry Potter, Bellatrix loved voldemort but that didn't stop her from being a CM according to the first page of this page. I forgot to mention that Regal also tried to commit genocide on the people who have the wit (magical ability that allows the user to communicate with the animals).

Wasn't love (and that was Film!Bellatrix only).

Yep, big difference between love and fanatical obsession with the embodiment of your beliefs.

Regal, unfortunately, is a 99 percent monster. I've read the series and can vouch for how horrible he is, but he falls just short.

BTW, we need to add that bit to Bellatrix's reason that was given recently...

@ 27325, Occasional Exister, how much more of a case of the Gang Leader from Dirty Laundry do you want? Its a short film, no more then 10 minutes, the gang leader has about 5 minutes of screen time, where he rapes a prostitute and has his goons beat up a kid until he agrees to sell drugs for him, then Punisher dispatches him.

The film is legally on Youtube, you can watch it yourself. I could do an effort post on him, but for such a short film it would be very short and very to the point.

edited 3rd Jul '14 7:36:16 AM by TheOverlord

For the others...I'm gonna say a tentative yes to the Dirty Laundry gang leader.

First: Do No Harm...the reading makes it seem as if he targeted his daughter. Tentative potential yes.

Girls with Slingshots...yeah, no on Candy.

Vangelus: Cut Prime

Iron Kingdoms: Keep Turok

Ivy League Killer: Expand.

Jennifer Government: Nike sounds a keep.

Didn't we have someone in to make a case for the Streets of Rage saga, too?

Also, Kil'Jaeden is good, but needs a few tweaks.

Here are more writeups:

• Sword Of Doom: Tsukue Ryunosuke, the Villain Protagonist of this old Japanese Jidaigeki film is a seemingly peerless swordsman- and a heartless murderer. Beginning the film by killing a monk praying for death simply because he can, Ryunosuke proceeds to a tournament to show his skill. When the wife of one opponent begs him not to humiliate her husband, Ryunosuke coerces sex from her and later kills her husband in the fight anyways, making the wife his mistress. Eventually making his living as an assassin, Rynosuke kills many people and even his mistress when she finally has enough. At film's end, Ryunosuke snaps and turns on his own employers, slaughtering everyone they send against him until numbers take their toll. Rather than submit, he ends the film lunging at them with an expression of animalistic fury on his face. A cruel, ice-cold man seemingly bereft of emotion, the rot in Ryunosuke's soul goes horribly with his elevated ego and lack of scruples.

• Back to Brooklyn by Garth Ennis and Jimmy Palmiotti gives us this trio
  • Paul "The Wall" Saetta, the hulking boss of the Saetta family and "The Man Who Owns Brooklyn." Paul's secret is he's a serial pedophile and murderer in addition to his mafia nastiness. When his brother Bob discovers a videotape of Paul raping and murdering a little boy, it makes him disgusted enough to turn on Paul. In response, Paul kills multiple police officers to kidnap Bob's family with the implication he will murder Bob's young son Michael if Bob crosses him.
  • Churchill Paul's 'pet psychopath' is a dapper and eloquent gentleman who nevertheless seems to have no feeling towards anyone. When he tracks Bob to an old store Bob used to frequent, he tortures the elderly owner with a straight razor. After carving him to bits, Churchill has the place set on fire, informing the old man he can carry his bedridden wife out to save her after Churchill has left him in no shape to even walk. Churchill later captures Bob's best friend Vinnie and tortures him, only cutting it short with a bullet to the head when he realizes Vinnie will never betray Bob. It is also revealed Churchill is the one who set a deal with Russian mobsters to always provide Paul with immigrant boys.
  • Penny Saetta, Bob's wife, is revealed in the final issue to match her brother-in-law for evil when she reveals to Bob she participated in and did the filming for Paul's activities. Having only married Bob to be a gangster's wife and a self-described 'dangerous bitch,' she happily joined in with Paul on his snuff films. When Bob begs her to tell him she didn't involve their son, Penny comments she absolutely made the attempt before mocking Bob for his morals.

I'll edit those today. For Streets Of Rage Saga, I'll PM the Troper.

Okay, so the season (series?) finale for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2012 recently aired, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm afraid I don't think this Shredder counts. He is clearly horrified when Karai is mutated, and while this doesn't make him turn good, his rage at Splinter is clearly fueled by grief.

As promised:

• The Sword of Doom: Tsukue Ryunosuke, the Villain Protagonist of this Jidaigeki film, is a seemingly peerless swordsman-and a heartless murderer. Beginning the film by killing a monk praying for death simply because he can, Ryunosuke proceeds to a tournament to show his skill. When the wife of one opponent begs him not to humiliate her husband, Ryunosuke coerces sex from her and later kills her husband in the fight anyways, making the wife his mistress. Eventually making his living as an assassin, Rynosuke kills many people and even his mistress when she finally has enough. At film's end, Ryunosuke snaps and turns on his own employers, slaughtering everyone they send against him until numbers take their toll. Rather than submit, he ends the film lunging at them with an expression of animalistic fury on his face. A cruel, ice-cold man seemingly bereft of emotion, the rot in Ryunosuke's soul goes horribly with his elevated ego and lack of scruples.
• Back to Brooklyn, by Garth Ennis and Jimmy Palmiotti:
  • Paul "The Wall" Saetta is the hulking boss of the Saetta crime family and "The Man Who Owns Brooklyn." Paul's secret is he's a serial pedophile and murderer in addition to his Mafia nastiness. When his brother Bob discovers a videotape of Paul raping and murdering a little boy, it makes him disgusted enough to turn on Paul. In response, Paul kills multiple police officers to kidnap Bob's family with the implication he will murder Bob's young son Michael if Bob crosses him.
  • Churchill, Paul's "pet psychopath," is a dapper and eloquent gentleman who nevertheless seems to have no feeling towards anyone. When he tracks Bob to an old store Bob used to frequent, he tortures the elderly owner with a straight razor. After carving him to bits, Churchill has the place set on fire, informing the old man he can carry his bedridden wife out to save her after Churchill has left him in no shape to even walk. Churchill later captures Bob's best friend Vinnie and tortures him, only cutting it short with a bullet to the head when he realizes Vinnie will never betray Bob. It is also revealed Churchill is the one who set a deal with Russian mobsters to always provide Paul with immigrant boys.
  • Penny Saetta, Bob's wife, is revealed in the final issue to match her brother-in-law for evil when she reveals to Bob she participated in and did the filming for Paul's activities. Having only married Bob to be a gangster's wife and a self-described “dangerous bitch,” she happily joined in with Paul on his snuff films. When Bob begs her to tell him she didn't involve their son, Penny comments she absolutely made the attempt (Paul just wasn’t interested) before mocking Bob for his morals.

edited 7th Jul '14 1:04:08 AM by ACW

Good job with the Back to Brooklyn write-ups. Methinks the Slavers from MAX should be categorized in a similar way.

edited 3rd Jul '14 11:31:41 AM by LogoP

Yeah 2012 Shredder doesn't count, he is not the power mad psychopath that Utrom Shredder was.

I still think the best candidate for a CM is Rat King, unlike Shredder there he has no relationships with others that could redeem him and I think he is easily the least sympathetic villain in the show. Sure he doesn't have the same resources as Shredder or the Kraang but he tries hard to punch above his weight class.

He mutated his colleague, mind raped Splinter a couple of times and kidnapped a bunch of people, including teenagers and a small girl to perform dangerous experiments on them. I brought him up before, but some posters thought we should wait on him. He does seem to get worse with each appearance and he is presumed dead at the moment, but he could easily come from that, when should we make a decision on him? Since he has a habit of getting worse with each new appearance, I wouldn't mind holding off to see if he tries something worse later on, but when should we assume this guy's arc is done? I don't see this guy getting redeemed in the future, the show has gone out of its way to make him totally unsympathetic.

edited 3rd Jul '14 12:06:56 PM by TheOverlord

It's not the season finale OR series finale. There a few more season two episodes and two seasons afterwards to go.

And yes, Shredder suffers from "What have I - what have YOU done?" syndrome, and that does come with having genuine feelings for someone else. So he's a definitive .

With Rat King, the only issue I have with his inclusion is whether or not his actions, behavior, and mindset can be explained away by the fact that he now sees the world as a rat sees it, so to him, everything that doesn't fit in with a rat's lifestyle is "filthy" and "impure." On the flip side, there's the matter that Falco was a bad man before the mutation, so the rat mindset could really be just a flimsy excuse he uses to act upon the evil, destructive instincts he always harbored.

edited 3rd Jul '14 12:55:25 PM by ANewMan

What that the Rat King we were discussing awhile back?
As for splitting The Slavers: While I'd not be opposed, the formatting would be a bit unwieldy.

Less than 12 hours before TV and Sentai get swapped.

edited 3rd Jul '14 1:10:23 PM by ACW

Since I was asked to provide some clarification on the Streets of Rage Saga entry I had posted, I'll do so, speaking specifically to the Original Character of Dr. Simon Jerrin.

I had previously indicated that he drugs and rapes a 12-year-old girl and has no Freudian Excuse, and doesn't repent or get forgiven. The girl in question is Blaze, who in this story is the sole survivor of an attack on an indigenous tribe (courtesy of Mr. X), and Blaze was sent to live in a Syndicate-backed asylum to keep the truth about the massacre covered up. During her time there, Dr. Jerrin was in charge of conducting various experiments on her, and in between those times he'd come in and rape her; the attack that is described in the narrative hints that that particular incident is not the first time Jerrin has done such a thing to Blaze. As well, the narrative also does not indicate that anyone ordered Jerrin to rape her; he did it all on his own.

N.B. Since Jerrin doesn't get as much focus throughout the overall saga as opposed to characters like Shiva, my understanding of what eventually happens to Jerrin may not be complete; the above is based on my immediate memory of his actions in the story.

So I looked back on the thread and it looks like we never really reached a consensus on that classic cinematic villain, Miss Rhoda Penmark, who's been on my mind recently because I watched the movie. For my part I'll vote on her because I'm not sure she's fully cognizant of right and wrong. She's definitely evil, but in a rather childish way in that her misdeeds are the results of viewing the world through the lens of, well, a child. If the movie made it clear she realized her actions were wrong and didn't care I could see keeping her, but as it stands she seems to sort of believe that's just how kids are entitled to act. My interpretation, anyway.

Let's see: Would Hurt a Child (possibly repeatedly), cruel experiments...any murders to enhance his status? And what about the others?
Thanks for coming BTW

@ 27381 ACW, yeah I brought up Rat King about 100 pages ago:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=996

@ 27380 A New Man,

The thing is, as you mentioned, Rat King was a bad guy before the accident, he was a bad guy made worse, not really sympathetic. Also Rat King is a total hypocrite, he talks about how much he loves he his "rodent brothers", but his actions tell a different tale: He mind rapes Splinter several times, he experiments on his rats and he has no problem sending several rats to their doom to kill Splinter. Splinter calls Rat King a Control Freak and he is right, he seems to like his rats because he can control them, rather then any truly sympathetic reason. As soon as Splinter was uncontrollable, Rat King abandoned any pretense of brotherhood and tries to kill him.

Rat King did seem upset when Splinter threw one of his rats down a pit, but considering he needs his rats to see and Splinter was the only other rat around, he had a selfish reason to care about that particular rat.

edited 3rd Jul '14 4:28:13 PM by TheOverlord

So I've recently got confirmation that none of Myron's experiments are onscreen in Fallout 2. This means that the hundred slaves he kills falls squarely into the realm of Offscreen Villainy. Without that, all Myron does is try to roofie a female Chosen One. That means he fails the heinous standard compared to all the other psychos, rapists and mass murderers in the Fallout verse.

Also, anyone else think we should add this bit to Frank Horrigan's entry?

• Once defeated, Horrigan tries to activate the Enclave Oil Rig's self-destruct sequence, condemning all of his remaining allies to death, just so he can take the Chosen One with him when he dies.

I second HT there btw.