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RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#8651: Feb 25th 2021 at 8:14:58 AM

[up]At least the legitimately shitty ones. The ones who actually believed in what N was doing and eventually came to realize people can treat Pokemon kindly got to remain free under the Token Good Teammate of the sages, Rood, and Anthea and Concordia. They at least became The Atoner.

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!
Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. from the lupine den Since: Jan, 2001
This is going to be so much fun.
#8652: Feb 27th 2021 at 12:37:50 PM

[up]No I mean in the anime. There's just something hilarious about Ghetsis and Colress being taken by a police van.

Death is a companion. We should cherish Death as we cherish Life.
RussellStar5641 Gently wrap up this world like the night sky. from a view of a starry night sky. Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In love with love
Gently wrap up this world like the night sky.
#8653: Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:17:15 PM

Late Night Double Feature featuring Manos Returns / Manos: The Rise of Torgo

Edited by RussellStar5641 on Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:17:49 AM

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VampireBuddha Calendar enthusiast from Ireland (Wise, aged troper) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#8656: Mar 11th 2021 at 6:24:06 AM

[up][up]A Boy and His X book that at the same time ends up being something of a piss-take towards Vertigo properties. It works a lot better than it should have.

Next week is the beginning of the Transformers retrospective. And here's a question, how classic is a series that didn't get good until its second half? I feel bad for Bob Budinansky, the dude clearly HATED the restrictions on him and his last issue is essentially a giant middle finger towards Toyetic comics, but as soon as Simon Furman came on board the series' writing improved tenfold.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#8657: Mar 11th 2021 at 6:27:24 AM

Did the second half pick up a lot of scattered plot points and do interesting things with them?

It could wind up a classic on that basis

I’ve heard that’s what happened with sonic

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#8658: Mar 11th 2021 at 6:35:17 AM

[up]Furman essentially blended what he was doing with the UK stories with the rather aimless US run, and gave the series a clear direction, clear antagonists, and a clear MacGuffin. He was admittedly lucky in that regard. Budinansky created a computer program in the early issues called the Creation Matrix, and Furman retconned it into being the Matrix from the movie.

VampireBuddha Calendar enthusiast from Ireland (Wise, aged troper) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Calendar enthusiast
#8659: Mar 11th 2021 at 9:09:42 AM

I actually enjoyed Budiansky's stuff. Yeah, Furman's stuff was better, but that's mostly because Furman's great strength is juggling a huge cast of characters; it's pretty clearly why he was hired for The Vigilant.

Budiansky takes the alien robots and writes a fun, serialised scifi adventure, with a very-much early Bronze Age tone. Linkara brings up the pacing of Stanley and his Monster, and made a similar comment in the Cassandra Cain retrospective - the stories are serialised, but each issue does tell a full story instead of just being part a graphic novel that has been sliced into floppies. Budiansky's stories have a similar vibe; you get a complete story in each issue, but each story also follows and builds on what came before. Budiansky's earlier stories are genuinely good, and when he hits his stride he's easily as good as Furman, but as you read it you can see the stress of having to constantly accommodate Hasbro's demands gradually take its toll.

Ukrainian Red Cross
J79 Since: Jan, 2015
#8660: Mar 12th 2021 at 6:56:26 PM

[up] Same here, even stuff like the Carwash of Doom or the Autobots fighting the Decepticons during a rock concert has its charm. However, we also have the "Afterdeath" story,,,

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#8661: Mar 12th 2021 at 7:20:00 PM

[up]Those really bad stories are a combination of Hasbro demanding certain characters be gone and not letting Bob use a lot of the post-2005 characters. No Rodimus, no Galvatron, etc. Furman meanwhile had free reign to make post 2005 stories, and he also had Death's Head.

Edited by Beatman1 on Mar 12th 2021 at 10:20:34 AM

Perseus from Australia Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Mu
#8662: Mar 12th 2021 at 7:37:41 PM

I don't think Hasbro mandated a story where Optimus Prime offs himself because he accidentally killed some NPCs in a video game...

Trans rights are human rights.
VampireBuddha Calendar enthusiast from Ireland (Wise, aged troper) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Calendar enthusiast
#8663: Mar 13th 2021 at 5:31:12 AM

Eh, it's Transformers. As far as silly and goofy ideas go, that ranks somewhere in the middle

Ukrainian Red Cross
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#8664: Mar 13th 2021 at 9:02:17 AM

The hell are the extremes if that's middle of the road?

Edited by fredhot16 on Mar 13th 2021 at 9:02:48 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#8665: Mar 13th 2021 at 9:06:02 AM

Metal balls and urinating bots, probably.

Optimism is a duty.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#8666: Mar 13th 2021 at 9:44:13 AM

[up][up]The Marvel run is weird because I can easily tell you the good stories -

Target: 2006 and Time Wars (UK), Legacy of Unicron (UK), the entirety of the Unicron Saga (basically everything in the US run from Primal Scream to the end of the comic), the Lord Straxus stuff on both sides of the pond.

The bad stuff? Do you want So Bad, It's Good (or at least funny?) Car Wash of Doom, The Interplanetary Wrestling Championship (AKA Bob tells Hasbro to take this job and shove it), the introduction of Powermaster Optimus Prime. They're dreadful, but they're still funny, and the Wrestling Championship story is actually kind of interesting in its meta context (Bob saying he's done and questioning the value in making a toy comic with heroes and villains, and if kids should even bother looking to plastic robots as heroes).

Bad? Afterdeath is terrible from a storytelling perspective, the Underbase "Saga" is equally terrible in how little sense it makes, and the regular Pretenders make absolutely no sense in this continuity compared to how they were used in Japan, although they end up working out a bit better near the end.

To give you a sense of how Bob views his Transformers vs. how say, Furman or Japan viewed their takes, Bob's stories almost always had a human in them, and he liked the first Bay movie (not so much the other ones) because of that human/Transformer dynamic.

Edited by Beatman1 on Mar 13th 2021 at 12:48:19 PM

J79 Since: Jan, 2015
#8667: Mar 14th 2021 at 9:33:30 PM

I wonder if he'll also cover the GI Joe crossover, not to mention the return of the Transformers in the actual GI Joe comic (I also find it odd he never reviewed that comic, guess he was never a fan, but I consider it Marvel's best comic book of the 1980s).

Zeromaeus Mighty No. 51345 from Neo Arcadia Since: May, 2010
Mighty No. 51345
#8668: Mar 14th 2021 at 10:03:56 PM

I'd say it's likely he just never read it. Or never read enough to pick out something bad enough to feature, given that covering good comics is a relatively recent thing for the show.

Mega Man fanatic extraordinaire
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#8669: Mar 15th 2021 at 3:49:19 AM

[up]His comic fandom began in the late 90s IIRC. Joe was the Dragon Ball of its day, namely, the 80s, but had ended around 1994 due to declining interest and a clear Dork Age where Hasbro threw everything at the wall, hoping it would stick. (It did not).

Comparing the two, Joe was the superior comic, since its quality started relatively high and kept increasing, and even at the end didn’t completely tank. Conversely, there’s quite a few bad Marvel TF stories, even if its main arc in the second half is an all time classic.

Antiyonder Amalgam Universe Deity Since: Oct, 2011
Amalgam Universe Deity
#8670: Mar 15th 2021 at 6:32:43 AM

Finally occurred to me to check to see if the site had an AT 4 W thread. Missed having a place to discuss it frequently.

Read some previous pages too and have a few cents to give. But for my first post here...

1. Yeah I long ago accepted that the Pokémon anime is for kids first and foremost, with iffy decisions being purely business. With the expectation managed I find Post Johto stuff to vary from decent or at least dumb or good simple fun.

The build up of various BW flaws (https://forums.serebii.net/threads/why-do-people-dislike-black-and-white-and-sun-and-moon-animes.679747/page-5#post-19166248) seems too frequent to not feel like some of it was spiteful.

I'll admit I could still be wrong just that the Nimbasa Gym from Ash's stupidity to the lesson of the episode being that you should just stick to what works and to Hell with improving yourself? Sounds less like incompetence and more on the hateful sidesad.

And yeah Bianca's dad is less jerky than the game, but it doesn't feel like his anime self is suppose to be a jerk at all.

Or at least it seems like they might have meant for him to be an ass, decided against it, but forgetting to remove say him cheering at Bianca's loss or being surprised she has friends (see why I feel BW's anime bungling is more spiteful than clumsy?).

2. So yeah in relation to discussing how Civil War holds up less and less, possibly time. When a company like Marvel is trying to be realistic, one might say that Cap and Iron Man shouldn't really be able to go back to being chums. Especially when the comic version has the latter being more a villain than being more nuanced.

In contrast the MCU did it better by making both sides right and having a stronger reason for the two to cooperate (i.e. cosmic genocide by someone who didn't consider increasing available resourcesevil grin). Even then Tony dying.

So in short more nuance and it didn't reset for convenience of status quo.

Some would say Injustice also did it right by permanently dividing two factions of heroes and being able to stick to it's guns cause they didn't put it in the main continuity.

And considering how 616 Cap during the event seems to be more like the Ultimates version, yeah apparently Civil Wars was to be an Ultimates story.

3. Also cause someone asked what the Marville compilation disclaimer meant with Linkara no longer holding certain opinions. Speculation but given the Emergency review, maybe that bit where he told Jemas to go to Hell cause of the "police just getting fat on donuts" joke.

Which looking at his Emergency review yeah torn on the police today.

4. Now for a lighter comment but I read various comments of the storyline compilation videos. And one made by Lewis is that the Clone Saga story would have gone on for a good majority of 2018, but higher focus was given on the Co C story for reasons of levity compared to the more dramatic stories beforehand.

Found it, btw. His comment in the Storyline 11 Compilation from 2 years ago in response to someone feeling like the story was too short:

"You're not wrong. The storyline was originally planned to be a standard year-long one... but the Sleepwalker storyline ran longer than it was meant to and after such a heavy, emotional arc it needed something lighter - hence the Contest of Champions. Problem is I had hoped to end it before the anniversary, sooo it got split in two because, well, the 10th anniversary storyline has to happen on the actual 10th anniversary storyline.

Extraneous fluff in the storyline got cut, keeping in only the important parts - Mechakara's arrival, the twist reveal, second twist reveal."

5. Looking forward to more compilation of reviews. One I kind of hope for is maybe one for the early videos since some of them were frequently split into 2 to 3 parts (due to at the time YT allowing for a maximum of 10 minutes per video).

More to come down the line but less overtime as I get my comments out there.

Edited by Antiyonder on Mar 16th 2021 at 6:00:54 AM

Phoebe and Her Unicorn thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16104243270A34144300
Antiyonder Amalgam Universe Deity Since: Oct, 2011
Amalgam Universe Deity
#8671: Mar 16th 2021 at 7:24:51 AM

Also somethings I hope to see for an April Fools vid:

1. Just the cats being the spotlight for an episode or a quick vid like Bear Reviewing OMD. You know Starfire or Chieri reviewing a comic which is them just looking around and running off (Like "Screw that").

2. Okay I like watching Cinema Sins, but am not blind to the flaws of the video. So maybe a crack at a C Sins video, but on a comic. Has a Comic Sins vid been attempted?

Phoebe and Her Unicorn thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16104243270A34144300
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#8672: Mar 16th 2021 at 5:20:14 PM

Re-reading the Marvel TF stuff, particularly, for better or for worse, the Budinansky stuff, I’m reminded of one of Bob’s major tendencies that did not endear him to the readership (and probably Hasbro) as well.

The almost trolling level of focus on the “weaker” Bots and Cons, putting them in important positions, following them unless he had a new toy he had to promote, and in general doing the complete opposite of the Japanese approach on the biggest toys and loudest battles. How else can you explain conscious choices like making Ratbat leader of the Decepticons for at least 15 issues, and an utterly brutal Bait-and-Switch where the comic promises Fortress Maximus (already significantly smaller than the city Transformer with the Master Sword) vs. Grimlock, only to that same issue, have a convoluted excuse swap out Fort Max for Blaster? It genuinely felt like trolling, where Bob didn’t want the kids to play with the most expensive toys, while still being forced to advertise new toys whenever Hasbro had some to sell.

GI Joe was WAY more fluid with its toy promotion. Of course, reading them both, the Bob stuff from Afterdeath forward, be it Executive Meddling or not, drags the quality of the series down immensely, while Joe, even at its worst, was never unreadable or out and out frustrating.

Edited by Beatman1 on Mar 16th 2021 at 8:21:38 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#8673: Mar 16th 2021 at 5:36:08 PM

Remembering Linkara's review of "The Carwash of Doom", he actually enjoyed Ratbat becoming leader of the Decepticons because it was such an out-there choice. Plus, he really loves the Mini-Cassettes Transformers.

I recall that Budiansky's reasoning behind the decision was that he wanted a Decepticon leader that wasn't as physically imposing like Megatron or Shockwave, kind of like how he made Grimlock leader of the Autobots because he wanted an Autobot who didn't really care about protecting humans.

That plot-point... I'm a bit more iffy on, since it basically turned Grimlock into a petty tyrant who hunted down other Autobots because they wanted to help people. Furman definitely got a better handle on the character than Budiansky did.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Mar 16th 2021 at 8:41:31 AM

Antiyonder Amalgam Universe Deity Since: Oct, 2011
Amalgam Universe Deity
#8674: Mar 16th 2021 at 5:39:07 PM

Incidentally I actually have almost all the comic in the retrospective for a change (I do have the Secret Wars II tie in of ROM) with the Gen 2 comics being the exception thanks to the IDW's second reprint which yeah included all Circuitbreaker stories and the guest appearance by Spider-Man.

Plus the Regeneration TP Bs even the one he doesn't seem to be covering (the 84 miniseries recently written).

And for more trivia, if there are any other MLP fans besides me here (didn't watch the show at the time he reviewed those comics) the 2015 Holiday Special he reviewed as reprinted last year in the TPB Holiday Memory.

While it's not an absolute, IDW I guess don't prioritized reprints as much even in the regular series Omnibus. Other exceptions include the Equestria Girls specials and Legend of Magic (omitted the first time the series was reprinted, but included in the Lo M Omnibus).

Phoebe and Her Unicorn thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16104243270A34144300
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#8675: Mar 16th 2021 at 5:55:27 PM

[up][up]I really don’t get that line of thinking when the Decepticons run on “Might makes right” style thinking for much of the run. I know that Bob was hamstrung by who he had to work with that US Hasbro would let him use, so it’s not like the Decepticons could be led by Overlord and Devil Z but considering some of the Cons that he did have access to, it makes no sense that they didn’t just beat the little accountant into a pile of oil and junk parts.

And even if there was merit in having a detracted Grimlock lead (personally, having both sides not care and the comic do its best to avoid big battles created some major Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy for a good stretch of time), pulling out the rug on big battles and having Blaster fight instead of Fort Max just felt petty.


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