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Rename: Headshots Kill Robots

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#51: Nov 19th 2010 at 2:24:53 PM

Dont put crowner links on trope pages. We are suppose to no longer do that (hence the repair shop notifications)

I already flagged my crowner, hopefully a mod will come by.

EDIT: Reposting Rename Crowner Link here for ease of finding

edited 19th Nov '10 2:29:44 PM by Ghilz

girlyboy Since: Jan, 2001
#52: Nov 19th 2010 at 2:39:01 PM

Ahh, I see. Well, sorry about linking it then.

edited 19th Nov '10 2:44:25 PM by girlyboy

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#53: Nov 19th 2010 at 7:32:58 PM

Question. Do Humongous Mecha with the cockpit in the head instead of the torso count? Same basic design philosophy ignored.

Fight smart, not fair.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#54: Nov 19th 2010 at 9:36:31 PM

I would not see why not. As you could just as well put the cockpit in the chest...

EDIT: DQZ, stop removing points in the crowner coz you dont agree with them. Especially if your not gonna discuss it in the thread.

edited 19th Nov '10 9:39:11 PM by Ghilz

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#55: Nov 19th 2010 at 9:39:23 PM

Or the Crotch.

Giant Mechs though normally have camera's in the head which mostly disables them... That would be borderline I think The GM Head from The08th MS Team and the Zeta Zaku from ZZ Gundam is an example of that.

edited 19th Nov '10 9:48:53 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#56: Nov 19th 2010 at 10:03:42 PM

[up][up] It's not true, that's why I removed it. The trope is about the placement of the vital running parts, and the irrelevance of the rest of the body, not about headshots or killing them.

BTW, I'm also going to look at the wicks and see about that misuse point.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#57: Nov 19th 2010 at 10:07:19 PM

That's not a problem. Gundam is generally pretty good about avoiding the whole head loss=>exploding mecha thing. I was thinking more like Megas XLR (which is a parody) putting the cockpit in the head, essentially functioning as the CPU.

Fight smart, not fair.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#58: Nov 19th 2010 at 10:16:20 PM

[up][up] If all the vitals are in the head then a headshot WILL kill it. So the title is not false.

Seriously, stop being so pedantic about it.

DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#59: Nov 19th 2010 at 10:23:28 PM

Wicks so far:

Now before you argue that a lot would still count, this trope is where the major running parts of a robot are, and how the body doesn't matter. It is not Attack Its Weak Point, which is what a lot of the wicks list it is. So there is misuse.

[up] I repeat, the title makes this look like Attack Its Weak Point, which is not what the trope is about.

edited 19th Nov '10 10:25:53 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#60: Nov 19th 2010 at 10:28:04 PM

Does seem like we have a decent amount of misuse.

[up] The put that in the Pros.

edited 19th Nov '10 10:28:44 PM by Ghilz

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#61: Nov 19th 2010 at 10:29:37 PM

Well it would of been nice to have said info before 14 people already voted...

edited 19th Nov '10 10:29:51 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#62: Nov 19th 2010 at 10:39:17 PM

The title does not illustrate the trope. It makes it look like Removing the Head or Destroying the Brain But For Robots. That is just a side effect of the trope.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
rodneyAnonymous Sophisticated as Hell from empty space Since: Aug, 2010
#63: Nov 19th 2010 at 10:41:29 PM

I disagree. To me, Head Shots Kill Robots implies "...but they shouldn't", and I wonder why not, and come up with "because there is no reason for a robot to be designed with brains in its head" in three seconds.

Even if I'm wrong, or don't make that leap, reading the article will set me straight. I don't think Shoot the Dog should be renamed because people very frequently add examples of mooks discharging a firearm at a canine.

There is misuse, but not that much, and I don't think there is evidence that the misuse is caused by a misleading name.

edited 19th Nov '10 10:44:35 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#64: Nov 19th 2010 at 10:44:54 PM

"I don't think Shoot The Dog should be renamed because people very frequently add examples of mooks discharging a firearm at a canine."

That's the definition of misuse. That actually is a major reason to support a rename.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
rodneyAnonymous Sophisticated as Hell from empty space Since: Aug, 2010
#65: Nov 19th 2010 at 10:46:32 PM

Yes, that is a textbook case of a name causing misuse. I also disagree that it should be renamed. The name Shoot the Dog references Old Yeller, which is perfect. There are no mindless algorithms, very few rigid rules. "The name causes lots of misuse" is not a 100% surefire reason to rename. And anyway I don't see solid evidence that the name Head Shots Kill Robots is, in fact, causing lots of misuse.

edited 19th Nov '10 11:02:02 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel. Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#66: Nov 19th 2010 at 10:48:59 PM

When the misuse is directly aimed at another trope (Boom, Headshot!) I think that its a huge reason to rename... That being said I dont think this crowner is going to be that effective thanks to the 10k edits done to it.

edited 19th Nov '10 10:49:54 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#67: Nov 19th 2010 at 10:54:36 PM

I disagree with the Robo Cop example, it's misuse. He's not a robot, he's a cyborg and the robotic parts were built around a human body.

Schlock Mercenary usage is correct.

edited 19th Nov '10 10:55:08 PM by Deboss

Fight smart, not fair.
girlyboy Since: Jan, 2001
#68: Nov 19th 2010 at 10:55:15 PM

Didn't this crowner use to have "cons"?

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#69: Nov 19th 2010 at 10:59:29 PM

[up][up] Debatable for Robocop. It's outright told that most of his body was outright removed. In fact, Robocop 2 features a robot that is built in a similar method, and is not humanoid at all. They COULD have put the brain somewhere else. Didn't want to.

girlyboy Since: Jan, 2001
#70: Nov 19th 2010 at 11:04:44 PM

Alright, it's kind of late so correct me if I didn't count this correctly.

DQZ listed 34 wicks. Of these, 12 are correct, 12 focus on actual head-shots, one (Star Wars) is both, 8 are unknown due to lack of context, and 1 is "just for fun".

So, honestly, I'm not seeing a big problem here. Remember those 12 "headshot" wicks are not out-and-out bad use; they are examples of the trope, just ones that emphasize the head-shotty part. So they are not bad examples in the sense that they're using the completely wrong trope or something.

Given the nature of the claimed problem with the trope name, I think 50% of the known wicks involving no headshots at all is clear proof that people are, by and large, not confused into thinking that this trope is exclusively about robots getting shot in heads. It seems that tropers realise quite well that the trope is generally about robots having their brains in their heads, with the current names.

I'm also gonna cry "foul" on DQZ' editing of the crowner here. Unilateral and unsupported. I am going to restore it, with an elaboration on these numbers.

Edit: Ghilz beat me to restoring it. tongue The clear-cut part, anyway...

edited 19th Nov '10 11:20:30 PM by girlyboy

DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#71: Nov 19th 2010 at 11:08:56 PM

1. How does it fit how "illustrative" is supposed to apply? And I explained the reasons it doesn't several times.

Seriously, how is it illustrative, when it's not the main point of the trope, but an incidental effect?

2. I already stated why those that focus on headshots are misused (this trope is not Attack Its Weak Point, and the use mistakes it for that), which also relates to why the name isn't illustrative.

edited 19th Nov '10 11:10:35 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
girlyboy Since: Jan, 2001
#72: Nov 19th 2010 at 11:13:22 PM

The name is illustrative because the reason headshots kill robots is because their brains are in their heads. This is a very easy leap to make, unless one is insisting on being overly-literal.

Edit: I'd like to also take a look at the examples on the page itself... Most of them seem entirely correct.

edited 19th Nov '10 11:23:33 PM by girlyboy

DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#73: Nov 19th 2010 at 11:24:06 PM

No, the trope is that robots can function without the bodies. The killing is just incidental. So that is still not illustrative of the trope.

And it seems a lot of the cons you listed are just you disagreeing that the misuse actually fits, which is not a proper crowner argument.

edited 19th Nov '10 11:25:34 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
girlyboy Since: Jan, 2001
#74: Nov 19th 2010 at 11:28:54 PM

I listed two cons, only one of which even remotely matches what you are trying to say, and I think even that is quite justified. So I am not sure that counts as "a lot".

A lot of the cons you deleted were all the cons in the crowner. I think I have the high ground in this crowner debate just by virtue of not having deleted all the "pros" (I even added one!) tongue

Anyway, perhaps you should re-read the trope. It is not "robots can function without their bodies" any more than it is about "killing robots." The trope is, "robots keep their brains inside their heads, and this has a number of implications in story-telling, including that robot heads can sometimes function on their own without the body, and that sometimes the only way to kill a robot completely is to shoot its head." That's what the trope description amounts to, anyway!

edited 19th Nov '10 11:31:15 PM by girlyboy

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#75: Nov 19th 2010 at 11:33:02 PM

No, the trope is that robots can function without the bodies.

No it's not. That's Losing Your Head Read the description. The "without the body part" is mentioned as a side effect of the trope. To quote

The head may even be able to function completely independent of the body, like a human Brain In A Jar.

edited 19th Nov '10 11:33:21 PM by Ghilz

AlternativeTitles: HeadshotsKillRobots
20th Apr '10 12:00:00 AM

Crown Description:

Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.

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