Ok it was mentioned there is not a thread for Law Enforcement Officers (LEO for short)and other similar jobs for discussion.
This is for discussing the actual jobs, ranks, training, culture, relations to military bodies that exist, and any other variety of topics that can arise pertaining to the World of Policing.
Yes, in the sense of actually no not at all. Per Oxford's dictionary, Justice is defined as "Just behavior or treatment", which is distinct from Vengeance, defined as "punishment inflicted or retribution exacted for an injury or wrong." Vengeance of the State might be better defined as "War".
For what it's worth, Merriam-Webster also disagrees with you, defining Justice as "the process or result of using laws to fairly judge and punish crimes and criminals". A street execution of two strangers does not fall into this category by any generous stretch.
And I think some folks need to realize that cops are always going to be judged as a group, because they are considered a single profession, just as all military personnel get judged when someone in uniform is sexually assaulted or a civilian is killed needlessly, police officers will all be judged as a group if some of their number are suspected of using inappropriate force or trying to pervert the justice system to cover their own asses.
edited 22nd Dec '14 10:13:27 AM by AFP
The vengeance that the State takes against those who wrong it is called, by the State, Justice, with all the "fairness" and "impartiality" and "balance" that implies. That doesn't mean that the state's "Justice" is actually "just". It just means that they want us to think of it that way.
This point is not entirely irrelevant to the discussion, since we're talking about the Criminal Justice System, and all the blatant injustice it doles out left and right. Furthermore, pay attention to just how "just" and "restrained" the system is when one of its members is hurt.
When those hurt aren't the State or aren't important to it, it can afford to conspicuously take its time and be gentle and magnanimous and keep you on the Green Mile for decades. It's showing off that it wasn't hurt.
Vengeance, in the sense of "the wronged taking justice into their own hands", can be, in fact, just. "Justice", in the sense of "the State taking vengeance out of the wronged's hands", can, in fact, be unjust.
edited 22nd Dec '14 10:22:08 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.Stop using a semantic argument to distract from the issue.
The definition of justice as I used it was clearly meant to imply a fair and just act. Your personal opinion of what the word's definition should be is irrelevant to the discussion.
edited 22nd Dec '14 10:49:53 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Killing random police officers as revenge for other police officers killing innocent people isn't something that would be considered just under any definition of justice.
For the record, I don't even think it would be just to assassinate those officers- But it certainly isn't just to kill random people.
edited 22nd Dec '14 10:56:15 AM by Hodor
Edit, edit, edit, edit the wikiAnyways, we all know that the true meaning of Justice is when I am allowed to take my rightful place on the Throne of the Known Galaxy.
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*shrug* That we agree on.
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Please forgive me. The genealogy of morals is indeed not the issue here. I got distracted. But don't dismiss "semantics" as such; they are very important.
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edited 22nd Dec '14 11:35:16 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.tldr;
Everyone in New York is making an ass out of themselves. The Fraternal Order of Police, the NYPD, the protestors, and especially that jackass mayor of theirs for not containing and dispersing this shit earlier. Not to mention that he all but condoned the protesting and demonized his own police force in the process. He should have taken steps to contain the protesting and not let it get out of hand the way it has.
NYPD logic
. Think the mayor has an agenda here? Scores to settle?
Barkey, welcome back. Your absence was conspicuous. Any non-classified tales you can tell?
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.Sigh. One of my friends on Facebook is an LEO from a major Texas city. He is taking a hardline stance against everyone protesting against police abuse of power/inappropriate use of force, and it's getting rather tiresome having him try to hitch my wagon to the guy who murdered the two officers in New York.
I'm in the Air Force. A better argument could be made tying me to people who have killed far more people on any given day than any crazy guy or power-mad police officer with a gun, so at this point I'm just writing it off as him taking things to personally and skimming past for the most part.
One of my family over for Chirstmas is an ex-cop and ex-detective who worked in Internal Affairs for three years, so he has tons of war stories to tell.
But one thing that struck me is what he said about Alamaba. He said that he once went to a training meeting in Alabama, and after talking to the police there, he was so scared that when the meeting was over, he drove straight back to Georgia and kissed the ground, and he's too scared to ever return to Alabama again.
Some of the police told him that they specifically look for people in nice cars with out of state license plates to arrest and steal their cars. They can legally arrest you for pretty much anything, seize your car, and hold you in jail for up to six months without charging you of a crime. Meanwhile, while you're sitting in jail, the car is towed, then impounded for storage fees, then the title passes to the state and there's nothing you can do about it.
Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's PlayEh, the mayor's bs about having to "train his son" just gets on my nerves because I was taught exactly the same things without the "because you're black" bit, along with the rest of my family. Always heard it from uncles who were police officers. Do what cooperate, be respectful, ect. If the guy selling cigarettes had cooperated he'd still be alive, Ditto the guy from Ferguson.
edited 23rd Dec '14 11:27:22 PM by joesolo
I'm baaaaaaackHOLY SHIT.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.That makes no sense. Almost all 50 states require charges to be brought withing 72 hours or you have to let them go. California is 48 hours.
Cops can arrest you for anything true, but it's the prosecutor who actually presses the charges and if they don't do that, you're free.
Now prosecutors can alter charges, drop charges, or add charges based on what the evidence is, but they're not even allowed to tell you what they are charging you with without council, unless you wave council.
So if they're holding people for up to six months? I would really like to know what jurisdiction that is and why the feds aren't all over that because that's breaking federal law.
Now once you are charged, there can be six months before you're arraigned, that makes sense. But just holding people like that? I'm skeptical.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - AszurCops are claiming he had a gun and took aim at the officers as well, though the video released isn't that clear.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/24/justice/missouri-officer-involved-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

No, his message came across fine. He didn't ruin the message because the message was already horrible to begin with. "They take one of ours, we take two of theirs" is pretty unambiguous. This wasn't about a moral victory, it was about retribution.
That his actions paint his message in a murderous, thuggish light does not taint the message, because the message itself is that of a murderous thug. This was an act of mindless vengeance, not justice.
edited 22nd Dec '14 9:33:19 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.