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Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 30th 2025 at 11:56:51 AM
Okay, I've been looking through the history of the articles in question. What I see is a lot of back and forth on Characters.Fate Stay Night Masters and Characters.Fate Zero over interpretations of various characters. One thing I see coming up repeatedly is you edit warring over the interpretation of Sakura as a Yandere and/or Clingy Jealous Girl. Madrugada warned you back in 2011 to knock it off or take it to discussion, and neither you nor Arha appeared willing to do so.
Edit: lu127 beat me to some other information that I didn't look at. I'll let her deal with this, since she's more familiar with the situation.
edited 13th Jun '12 8:15:06 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I'm not "edit warring". Correcting the article, providing actual reasons for why I've made changes and then reverting his edits when he just puts them back without actually answering my points is perfectly reasonable editing practice. If anything, he is the one edit warring, so why am I banned for it?
Sakura is not Yandere, and nor is she a "Clingy Jealous Girl". She does not fit the description of the trope in any way. I am a member of a forum dedicated to Type Moon works, and I don't think a single person there would seriously claim that Sakura is Yandere any more. He has provided no evidence that she is, and when I remove the entries (because they're false) with a perfectly valid explanation in the edit comments, he just puts them back in place again without any response to my comments, and without making any effort to take it to discussion.
As for Magdrugada, I can't read that post (due to the edit ban), so I don't know what I said or when I said it. But, however, I do think he was too hasty with his involvement in the discussion in question, and his action ultimately prevented us from reaching a reasonable compromise by giving Arha no incentive to do so.
With Arha, I admit that what I said in the forum was a false accusation, but given that I'd just been banned and my only post in the last two weeks was to make a couple of edits to the Fate/Zero page, and given his previous obstructive attitude and refusal to discuss disagreements or compromise on the outcome, I don't think it was that unreasonable a belief.
edited 13th Jun '12 8:25:26 AM by Cherry_Lover
Visit forums.darksidemoon.net, a new Type-Moon forum.Sorry, dude. Edit warring is edit warring. Based on this attitude I see no reason to restore your privileges. If Arha or anyone else is misbehaving, we'll deal with them as well, but your good behavior is not conditional on theirs. We teach people to behave better than that in kindergarten.
edited 13th Jun '12 8:26:33 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"OK, then why is he not banned? He is edit-warring too, by your definition, so why do I get a ban and he does not?
I make an edit, which is entirely reasonable, and he then reverts it without any explanation. And, yet, that is my fault?
I dso not go into this trying to "edit war", I am just trying to improve the article. And, yet, he never makes any effort to discuss anything, or to take my points into account. He just reverts the edit without explanation, or without addressing my points.
I do not understand how this is my fault. Further, I do not see why I was banned now, when I have not had any kind of "edit war" for at least 6 months, if not longer (changing an article once does not count as an "edit war").
edited 13th Jun '12 8:29:21 AM by Cherry_Lover
Visit forums.darksidemoon.net, a new Type-Moon forum.Madrugada's response was to pull the entry so the rest of you could discuss it. That is the standard practice when an entry is contested, whether you like it or not. Your response was to basically tell her she's an idiot.
Your thump count is for this exact same behaviour. You need to understand that edit-warring is not cool, not complain about the mods when they come in to settle things.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerThen why am I banned and Arha is not?
I actually try to be helpful and contribute (see the discussion in the forum right now, for example), but yet I get blocked because I actually edit the articles to contain correct information? And, yet, when he reverts the very same edits, that is just fine?
Further, the "edit war" in question (with Magdurugada's blanking) was us editing the article to come to a final outcome. We were not simply reverting each other's edits, we were making different edits to find something mutually acceptable. I do not think her response was reasonable.
But, regardless, that was over a year and a half ago. I do not recall any significant "edit wars" since then. I have removed entries that are invalid, yes, but not repeatedly, and certainly not when the other person has actually discussed it with me.
Visit forums.darksidemoon.net, a new Type-Moon forum.Arha has received a suspension in the past. Regardless, that has nothing to do with this.
You don't appear to understand what an Edit War is.
Attempting to rewrite a certain portion because you two disagree and cannot come to a conclusion is an Edit War. Do you know how many reverts I count on that edit war from last year? Ten. Let me give you a sample:
26th Jan '11 7:01:33 PM Arha
Take it to the FSN thread and we can discuss it there. Leave the page how it originally was for now so we can stop the edit warring.
This is what should be done in the case of an Edit War. You both stop and try to sort it out through discussion. Your response was to keep editing the same piece again because you didn't agree. That's Grade A Edit War right there and Madrugada's response was more than reasonable. Then, when Madrugada warned you to stop, you took a shot at her in the discussion page.
You don't appear to understand this is wrong. Even after a whole year, you're saying that edit warring was okay.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerHang on, how is both of us editing a post to try to come to a mutually-acceptable outcome not reasonable? OK, when we stopped agreeing to do so, or start just repeatedly changing it back-and-forth, then it is "edit-warring", but prior to that point surely it is just an attempt to get a mutually-acceptable outcome. Indeed, that's the basic principle on which Wikipedia works (although I am well aware that this is not Wikipedia). Further, given the final outcome of that (which was that the entry got blanked entirely), I don't really see how her intervention did help matters. Also, Arha's statement was just an obvious attempt to get the original version (which he liked and I did not) left in place, for the time being at least, which I do not think was reasonable.
But, fine, if that is "edit-warring", then I won't do it again. Even if I don't really agree with that policy, there's no point in getting banned over it.
Aside from that, I don't see any other instances of me edit-warring. Indeed, when we had an argument over the "Yandere" thing, it was me who said to take it to the discussion (or, rather, to the forum), and asked him to provide evidence for his viewpoint.
edited 13th Jun '12 9:04:09 AM by Cherry_Lover
Visit forums.darksidemoon.net, a new Type-Moon forum.You have another chance. Be warned that third chances are rarely given. Do not get personal over this again.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerI'm writing to ask about my current status in the OTC forums after the events of a certain discussion. I can understand why the thread was locked - I agree with that decision, honestly - but I'm not clear on why OTC posting has been turned off for me. May I ask why? Do OTC posting privileges return after time or is there an action I need to take to regain them? Thank you for your help.
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.@RadicalTaoist: I'm talking this over with the mods. Back to you soon.
@IM Boring: How about replying to this
?
edited 18th Jun '12 8:04:36 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Thank you, Fighteer. Could I request/suggest soliciting the opinions of others who took part in that thread? The troper with whom I was disagreeing most has told me over PM he didn't see any reason for me to be banned.
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.Care to explain why you deleted the comments in this review?
That was my brother. We have different computers, and different accounts. He probably just forgot to sign off, and sign in, so he removed the comments focused to him, as me accidentally. Don't know about Flame Doom 9 though.
If that's true, then your account has been compromised. Someone else has used your account to misbehave (the deletion of those comments being that misbehaviour), and they have received a ban over it, dragging your account into the process as well.
The fact that you let it fall into irresponsible hands is not encouraging. We expect that users can handle their accounts responsibly.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - FighteerFighteer just suspended me from the YKTTW forum for making three Early Development Phase drafts that related to distinctions between courtly love and prostitution. (Just finished watching the second season of Game Of Thrones, found the queen's drunken rant interesting.) I tried to talk with Fighteer to get the suspension lifted, but he sent me here instead - so here I am.
One of these three ideas turned out to not be tropable, since it was too close to Gold Digger. The other two have not reached enough development/coherence to tell. None of them are intended to be sexualized, the issues I wanted to analyze are about social status.
One was intended to be about highly respected (but not necessarily wealthy or highly paid) courtesans such as the courtesans of Idra (priesthood of the Love Goddess Idra in Scarred Lands). The other was a bunch of examples of powerful and highly respected characters claiming to be no better than the commonly scorned prostitutes - combined with a so far feeble attempt to construct a trope description for that.
Anyway, I guess this is not a good time to start drafts connected to sensitive topics? I know the Rape Tropes index has been blanked out recently. But the The Oldest Profession index has not, so I thought it was still an acceptable topic. If there has been any new policy documents since No Lewdness No Prudishness, please link.
In any case, the drafts was intended to grow into solid tropes, and there was not any bad intentions of any kind behind them. I am sorry that I annoyed Fighteer, it was not my intention. More importantly, I'm sorry if I contributed to any headache the administration is currently going through regarding sensitive topics and advertisers or whatever.
edited 18th Jun '12 4:59:40 PM by Xzenu
I think you're confusing cultural phenomena, real or imaginary, with tropes. Your YKTTW entries were flagged for our review and the other mods agreed with me that you're chasing issues that have nothing to do with what we use this wiki for.
We agreed to remove your YKTTW privileges until you get a better understanding of what a trope is.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I completely agree that the draft currently named "Nobles Are Prostitutes" does not pinpoint a real trope, and that it does not deserve to be launched as a trope page on TV Tropes.
However: You seem to vastly overestimate how much thought I did put into that draft, as well as how highly I regard the draft. It was never intended to be more than an early step towards pinpointing a trope. I apologize for bringing up a half-baked thought in a way that offended or annoyed. I should have thought it through more before posting a first draft.
The extreme incompetence you accuse me of would have made me cry with shame if I had actually attempted to launch the draft in it's current sorry state. Now I'm more like, “Thanks for helping me pinpoint the trope I'm looking for here, I just wish you wouldn't be so harsh about it”.
Social phenomena are not tropes. Recurring themes in various works portraying social phenomena are tropes. A phenomena (social or otherwise) can have many tropes, using and portraying the phenomena in various ways and from various perspectives. These tropes often contradict each other. Take for example tropes on the phenomenon of goodness such as Good Is Dumb Good Is Not Dumb. (By the way: Whether or not the phenomenon of “goodness” is social or not and whether it's a real or imaginary phenomenon, that's a really interesting philosophical question – although usually irrelevant for tropes on how goodness is portrayed in fiction.)
Another social phenomena may have no tropes at all – for example because it is to complex for portrayals to come in the form of tropes, or because the phenomena simply isn't brought up in works. At the same time, one trope can cover many (more or less distinct) social phenomena.
As for the trope at hand, yes, the description got lost in queen Cersci's self-pitying rant. The social situation/structure/phenomena in Vestros she's complaining about is way to complex for Game Of Thrones or any other work to codify into one trope.
While the current title and description sucks, I do think that the examples I have written are pretty solid. They all describe this: “A character of a highly prestigious group claim or insinuate that he or his group is actually no better than a group generally held in very much lower regard.”
I think that would be a good start for a description of the trope. Perhaps “Hollow Prestige Analogy” would be a good title to go with it?
(Anyway. If I do get editing back, I won't make a new draft for the trope in it's improved form. At least not unless you specifically say that you prefer that I do. While I do think that Hollow Prestige Analogy seem to be a real trope, I don't want to risk annoying you further and and I'm rather emotionally exhausted anyway. Neither you nor I get payed for our work here. So I don't want to waste my energy, or yours.)
edited 19th Jun '12 8:42:51 AM by Xzenu

Let's see...getting personal with the same person you disagreed over a year ago because of your edit ban?
Not cool.
Remember how you insulted Madrugada as well?
You seem to think us mods shouldn't intervene when you're edit warring. That's dead wrong, and based on what you said in the post linked above, I don't think you've understood this yet.
edited 13th Jun '12 8:12:11 AM by lu127
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer