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Type-Moon: Fate/stay night, Tsukihime, and Kara no Kyoukai discussion

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del_diablo Den harde nordmann from Somewher in mid Norway Since: Sep, 2009
Den harde nordmann
#2351: Jan 31st 2011 at 9:08:10 AM

[up]: Hmmm, yes, valid point.
But... I think I am going to disagree over the second section here, corrupted Sakura cares a lot for Shirou...but she sufferes Extreme Troll Logic combined with Fridge Brilliance . If she had broken Shirous legs, he could not have walked, if he could not have walked, he could not have participated, hence safe.
Of course, her original handicap was that she would never hurt a fly, soo.... :( Corruption.
And full corruption? She still at the least had a kink for Shirou, but yeah, the interest was not really present compared to uncorrupted.

A guy called dvorak is tired. Tired of humanity not wanting to change to improve itself. Quite the sad tale.
Cherry_Lover Since: Nov, 2009
#2352: Jan 31st 2011 at 10:01:24 AM

But... I think I am going to disagree over the second section here, corrupted Sakura cares a lot for Shirou...but she sufferes Extreme Troll Logic combined with Fridge Brilliance . If she had broken Shirous legs, he could not have walked, if he could not have walked, he could not have participated, hence safe.

Well, exactly. The logic was sound, if you're thinking in an Angra-Mainyu-like manner, and the intent behind it was entirely good (even if the mechanism was not).

However, in general Sakura does not have control over the shadow. Even in that case, in fact, all that happened was her conscious thought of "I want to stop Sempai fighting, so I'll hurt him" filtered into her subconscious as "let's attack Shirou". After all, the explosion that she made could quite easily have killed him (and, indeed, did, in the Bad End), and there's no way that she would consciously risk that, even with Angra Mainyu influencing her.

And full corruption? She still at the least had a kink for Shirou, but yeah, the interest was not really present compared to uncorrupted.

Well, yeah, she clearly still wanted him (she ordered Saber not to kill him repeatedly, including in the final battle), but that wasn't her primary interest. She was more interested in showing Rin that she was worthwhile. And, even then, her actions towards Shirou were, if anything, less insane and selfish than her actions towards others (she still attempted to protect him, even if that meant not being with him).

Visit forums.darksidemoon.net, a new Type-Moon forum.
MiyaKousaka mya~! from Kibitoukoukou Since: Dec, 1969
mya~!
#2353: Feb 3rd 2011 at 12:36:34 AM

The Kara No Kyoukai epilogue is out in 720p raws. Subtitles are released separately so you have to remultiplex them yourselves.

Also, does anyone whether it's 2 am or 3 am where Rin's magic is at its strongest? I need this for my fanfic...

Edit: Here is gg's release.

edited 5th Feb '11 9:28:53 AM by MiyaKousaka

nishishishi~ Nii-nii no baka... .__.
the1ultimate Protector of the Realm from Plato's Cave Since: Jan, 2010
Protector of the Realm
#2354: Feb 5th 2011 at 4:43:54 PM

I just finished the Unlimited Blade Works route.

I do have some questions about it though. For starters it's not immediately obvious (and even less so in the movie) that using a weapon from within the reality marble is quicker than summoning it. Can't Gilgamesh summon weapons faster than that?

I call forth Unlimited Stories!
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2355: Feb 5th 2011 at 5:46:30 PM

It takes a moment to pull them out and launch. Or grab. Whereas Shirou can just pick them up and start swinging away because they're already all there.

Edmania o hai from under a pile of erasers Since: Apr, 2010
o hai
#2356: Feb 5th 2011 at 6:01:33 PM

A lot of them do look pretty far away though...

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2357: Feb 5th 2011 at 6:17:46 PM

It's inside Shirou's world. I think the text of the VN says that they're always basically right where he needs them to be, ready to be used.

Edmania o hai from under a pile of erasers Since: Apr, 2010
o hai
#2358: Feb 5th 2011 at 6:22:20 PM

I'll just assume they shift their locations then.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2359: Feb 5th 2011 at 6:31:22 PM

That or the physics in there are really weird and every point is right next to each other. I bet that's the answer Nasu would go for at least.

AoTG Since: Feb, 2011
#2360: Feb 5th 2011 at 6:40:37 PM

Just read some of the earlier posts. Wow, you guys had a rather heated discussion. But there are holes on one side here.

Sakura's situation wasn't nearly as imminent as people would like to beleive. Just takes a good use of resources and the ol' noodle to see where things don't add up. Her issue was prana deprivation right? Well, if we remember from Fate, it was said that Rin gave Saber some jewels to ease the burden, and we know for sure her prana pool is higher than Sakura's, so why not feed the girl some jewels and then think of a plan.

Yeah, I know what people will say, the corruption, and that Kotomine was a perfectly logical and good source of info (even when we know he is purposely hiding important points about Angra Mainyu. Also this is the stage where AM's familiar that is walking around (which is and isn't Sakura mind you) is still controllable to a degree by Zouken, who should be the first target they go after, not the girl.

Another thing, Ilya knew about Sakura's situation almost from Jump Street (the beginning, if you don't know that saying). And also has a way to move people's souls from their body...which Shirou found out about and Rin knows the Einzbern families brand of magic in manipulating the consciousness (which later on, could have also helped somewhat with Sakura's Angra Mainyu problem, but what have you). Plus she knows about Sakura being a Grail and most likely had ways to counteract things. Though if you look at the game, Ilya has a strong brand of fatalism as well most likely indoctrinated into her by the Einzberns, so her resigning to Fate is not totally out of character.

The situation is so much more controllable if you think about like this right? Cherry _Lover has it correct that they didn't think nearly enough about this problem and played into Kotomine's (and Zouken's) hands by running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

Also, and I'm kinda disappointed no one has mentioned this, but if you're gonna kill the poor girl anyway, why not try the operation to remove the final worm? It just might be a success, and getting the tainted worms out of her early could quite possibly have removed the link she had with AM.

See? Now Mind of Steel looks like a tragic waste, rather than a plausible solution.

edited 5th Feb '11 7:03:04 PM by AoTG

the1ultimate Protector of the Realm from Plato's Cave Since: Jan, 2010
Protector of the Realm
#2361: Feb 5th 2011 at 8:35:27 PM

I still think Saber's resolution was more important though, so Fate is still my favorite route (although obviously Unlimited Blade Works has a bunch of cooler stuff in it).

[up] And I'm still definitely not looking forward to Heaven's Feel.

The impression I get is that heroic spirits do get memories from when they are summoned as guardians, but not when they are summoned as servants. Archer after all is tired of being summoned to the worst of humanity, but at the end of the route he notes that he will not remember what he learned in this time the next time he appears. Did anyone else get this impression?

I call forth Unlimited Stories!
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2362: Feb 5th 2011 at 8:40:47 PM

He stills knows what has happened. Namely that he's still killing people by the thousands to save millions. Since his whole life has been like that and he knows he ultimately failed to truly succeed, he still feels... well, he feels like Archer. He doesn't need to remember exactly what happened because he knows it has happened.

Also, honestly, HF is very good. I don't much like Sakura and the story doesn't work without her, but some very cool stuff happens.

And I'm really, really sick of talking about Mind of Steel so lets just drop that one.

edited 5th Feb '11 8:42:06 PM by Arha

the1ultimate Protector of the Realm from Plato's Cave Since: Jan, 2010
Protector of the Realm
#2363: Feb 6th 2011 at 6:43:09 AM

I was also wondering how Shirou managed to project Rho Ai- Ahli- Ahi... That flower shield thing, in his fight with Gilgamesh. Doesn't he have to see something like that first before he can project it?

I call forth Unlimited Stories!
MiyaKousaka mya~! from Kibitoukoukou Since: Dec, 1969
mya~!
#2364: Feb 6th 2011 at 7:50:05 AM

Archer previously projected Rho Aius in his fight with Lancer. Perhaps that might have something to do with it? :o

nishishishi~ Nii-nii no baka... .__.
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#2365: Feb 6th 2011 at 9:50:45 AM

Shirou projected Rho Aias? I need to play that game.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2366: Feb 6th 2011 at 10:14:37 AM

He did. Gilgames got irritated because Gate of Babylon only made small holes in it rather than plowing right through. It made small holes in Shirou at the same time, though.

As for how he did that... the official reason is probably that he has access to Archer's extensive version of UBW somehow, but I'm calling bullshit on that one.

Five_X Maelstrom Since: Feb, 2010
Maelstrom
#2367: Feb 6th 2011 at 11:11:30 AM

It was actually Archer who projected it from a distance, as I recall.

I write pretty good fanfiction, sometimes.
neobowman つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX from Unidentified Proxy Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX
#2368: Feb 6th 2011 at 11:14:31 AM

No, that was at the end. Shirou projected it too.

I think....

edited 6th Feb '11 11:14:38 AM by neobowman

MiyaKousaka mya~! from Kibitoukoukou Since: Dec, 1969
mya~!
#2369: Feb 6th 2011 at 5:57:04 PM

the official reason is probably that he has access to Archer's extensive version of UBW somehow, but I'm calling bullshit on that one.
This is what my gut says too.

^ Shirou projected it by himself.

edited 6th Feb '11 5:57:26 PM by MiyaKousaka

nishishishi~ Nii-nii no baka... .__.
Five_X Maelstrom Since: Feb, 2010
Maelstrom
#2370: Feb 6th 2011 at 8:04:26 PM

"I pull out a shield from the hill to block the oncoming Noble Phantasms———!"

Yep, he projected Rho Aias. That line is right after he decides to hold onto his ideal, but right before he actually makes UBW.

Man, I need to read FSN again.

I write pretty good fanfiction, sometimes.
MiyaKousaka mya~! from Kibitoukoukou Since: Dec, 1969
mya~!
#2371: Feb 6th 2011 at 8:51:42 PM

I'm more excited by the upcoming F/Z animu.

nishishishi~ Nii-nii no baka... .__.
Chaosjunction Since: Feb, 2010
#2372: Feb 7th 2011 at 1:01:55 PM

[up]

Indeed.

Also, on Rho Aius, Shirou projected that by himself, and Archer protected him when Gil used EA on him. Word of God

edited 7th Feb '11 1:03:40 PM by Chaosjunction

AoTG Since: Feb, 2011
#2373: Feb 8th 2011 at 4:31:29 PM

Actually you all are half-right, and this was rectified in the latest Complete Material (World Material)#3:

[quote] Q: In the end of the Rin route, was it Shirou that projected Rho Aias in the Shirou vs Gilgamesh fight? Or was it Archer? In Fate/side material, it's said that it was projection magic from Archer, but in the story, there was the depiction of Shirou "pulling the shield from the hill". Does this mean that this switched to Archer's scene?

A: This has been easy to misunderstand, but the part about Archer supporting Shirou was the time before Shirou pulled out Rho Aias, before Shirou came to his realization. After Shirou's monologue about him being surprised that he was still alive after taking Gil's attack, "If I survived, there must have been a reason why I survived. But that was simply something I didn't have any control over." That was the "Rho Aias" that Archer made to help Shirou in a way that wouldn't let Gilgamesh know there was someone else waiting to ambush him. [/quote]

You can see more interesting tidbits here: http://completematerial.pbworks.com/w/page/32479544/FrontPage And hmm, not many Sakura supporters it seems. Oh well, I hope we can get along anyway ya'll.

edited 8th Feb '11 4:34:41 PM by AoTG

MiyaKousaka mya~! from Kibitoukoukou Since: Dec, 1969
mya~!
#2374: Feb 9th 2011 at 1:33:17 AM

Hooray Flip-Flop of God.

nishishishi~ Nii-nii no baka... .__.
AoTG Since: Feb, 2011
#2375: Feb 9th 2011 at 6:36:25 AM

Not exactly. Remember what Archer said after Gil pincushioned him?

"'We' can take him, Emiya Shirou." It's just part of Archer's Batman Gambit.


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