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Type-Moon: Fate/stay night, Tsukihime, and Kara no Kyoukai discussion

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Five_X Maelstrom Since: Feb, 2010
Maelstrom
#2201: Nov 28th 2010 at 11:11:41 AM

You don't have to do Arc's route first, but it's the one you generally should do first. If you look at the flowchart, left-to-right is the order you should go through the game.

I write pretty good fanfiction, sometimes.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2202: Nov 28th 2010 at 11:27:37 AM

You have to do Arcueid or Ciel first. And before you do Kohaku, you have to do Akiha or Hisui. Recommend route order is Arcueid -> Ciel -> Akiha -> Hisui -> Kohaku.

Five_X Maelstrom Since: Feb, 2010
Maelstrom
#2203: Nov 28th 2010 at 11:33:57 AM

Ah, whoops, forgot that part. But I meant Arcueid first rather than Ciel. tongue

I write pretty good fanfiction, sometimes.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2204: Nov 28th 2010 at 11:36:42 AM

The two best heroines are at the beginning and end, with the worst in the middle!

del_diablo Den harde nordmann from Somewher in mid Norway Since: Sep, 2009
Den harde nordmann
#2205: Nov 28th 2010 at 12:17:53 PM

Thats good to know. I could not make sense of the flowchart, and it was sort of horrible to navigate, so I could not find out why I died where i died. I am stuck at the scene where our beloved protagonist goes to the Tea room, where he encounters the Serpant, which promtply kills him. Ciel-sensei says that I must raise more points towards Ciel.... but I attempted to, and I still don't understand why I get a bad end there.

A guy called dvorak is tired. Tired of humanity not wanting to change to improve itself. Quite the sad tale.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2206: Nov 28th 2010 at 12:20:30 PM

I recommend you find a normal walkthrough online. Should be easy to find. Only thing I used that flowchart for was the Shakes and Shivers Animal Land bad ends.

edited 28th Nov '10 12:21:02 PM by Arha

neobowman つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX from Unidentified Proxy Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX
#2207: Nov 29th 2010 at 5:57:10 PM

Made a poem on UBW. For school.

Look below

I'm a pretty crappy poet but tell me what you think of it?

edited 30th Nov '10 12:51:55 PM by neobowman

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#2208: Nov 30th 2010 at 8:04:07 AM

He and I

Our paths were once the same but then they diverged
Our paths were built on the same ideal:
To become a hero of justice. To save everyone.
His path traversed great trials, and led to great power.
But trying to follow his ideals led to the utter realization
He couldn’t save everyone.

To save the threatened, he would have to kill the threats.
So to save the majority, he killed the minority.
His path became broken.
He questioned the ideals that his own path was built upon.
His journey ended with no faith. Not in himself, nor in humanity.
He comes to me with his path concluded.

He says my ideals are flawed.
Weak,
Misguided,
WRONG.

I am faced with the consequences of this path.
I know this ideal has flaws.
But I decide that my path will continue on unbroken.
This ideal is my life. This ideal is me.
I will pursue my ideal,
Because this ideal is beautiful.

Use these \\\\ to force a linebreak.

And on a comment, that doesn't seem very good to me, to be honest.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2209: Nov 30th 2010 at 8:26:06 AM

One of us, won't last the night~
Between you and me it's no surprise
There's two of us
Both can't be right
Neither will move 'til it's over

(Okay, it's not a poem, and it's not mine. Sue me. And the song sounds more like Shinji. BUT STILL.)\\

edited 30th Nov '10 8:26:35 AM by Arha

neobowman つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX from Unidentified Proxy Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX
#2210: Nov 30th 2010 at 12:52:26 PM

Thanks for the // thing.

Figured it wouldn't be that good. Oh well.

del_diablo Den harde nordmann from Somewher in mid Norway Since: Sep, 2009
Den harde nordmann
#2211: Dec 3rd 2010 at 12:10:43 PM

Looked a bit more at the flowchart.... hmmm, you must do Arcuid first. There might be a slow and small opening for Ciel, but I won't be able to do it with luck.

A guy called dvorak is tired. Tired of humanity not wanting to change to improve itself. Quite the sad tale.
zzzdragon Pattern Select : RHB from The Duchy of Riksent Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Pattern Select : RHB
#2212: Dec 15th 2010 at 6:32:40 AM

So, if Shirou traced Monohoshizao (Assassin's sword), would he be able to use Tsubame Gaeshi?

Fear the Gothilolions! | Anime list
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2213: Dec 15th 2010 at 8:22:08 AM

I want to say no, but it does say it gives the ability to wielded it to him. I still say no since that's a very high level technique, plus when he was thinking about it while using Caliburn his ability to do so declined.

neobowman つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX from Unidentified Proxy Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX
#2214: Dec 15th 2010 at 1:28:28 PM

Tsubame Gaeshi technically isn't a noble phantasm. It's just a technique that assassin used. In fact, the sword he uses has nothing to do with the technique, it just happens to be the sword he wields.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2215: Dec 15th 2010 at 1:38:41 PM

^ Yeah, but when tracing a weapon he gains the ability of the wielder. If he didn't, he'd have gotten murdered by Berserker in the fight in Fate. I still don't think he could do it, though, because that was entirely unconscious. Tsubame Gaeshi would require the intent to use it, meaning he's thinking about it, meaning it's not unconscious anymore and he can't do it.

del_diablo Den harde nordmann from Somewher in mid Norway Since: Sep, 2009
Den harde nordmann
#2216: Dec 16th 2010 at 9:35:00 AM

^: I disagree partially.
The problem about Assassins sword is that it is just a bulk of iron compared to everything else, there is nothing special about it.
The skill is more or less something a normal human with a absurdly high skill can use, Shirou can't use it because it is a skill, not a enchantment.
The only thing he "gets" when doing good tracing is that he don't need to learn the balance or reach of the weapons he trace.
And he learns all "abilities" that the weapons have, or at the least the wielders have figured out. Like Exaliburns anti stronhold attack
More or less he can't use it for the same reason he would not be able to use magic he never learned.

edited 16th Dec '10 9:37:08 AM by del_diablo

A guy called dvorak is tired. Tired of humanity not wanting to change to improve itself. Quite the sad tale.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#2217: Dec 16th 2010 at 9:41:37 AM

No, he explicitly gained the ability of the wielder with Caliburn. It also kept him from getting his ass kicked by Gilgamesh at the end of Fate. I think if he traced Assassin's sword he would be able to mimic his skill temporarily and probably to a lesser extent.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#2218: Dec 16th 2010 at 1:28:41 PM

He gains the "experience of the weapon". So the sword knows how to fight for him, and his body gets dragged along.

That doesn't mean he's physically capable of using Tsubame Gaeshi though. It was implied that his hands were about to fall off after using Caliburn on Berserker.

neobowman つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX from Unidentified Proxy Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX
#2219: Dec 16th 2010 at 2:20:48 PM

Plus, Tsubame Gaeshi's actions are said to be literally impossible for a human to do. Assassin just.... does it.

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#2220: Dec 16th 2010 at 3:45:47 PM

Impossible means "completely possible if enough drama is present" in the Nasu Verse.

del_diablo Den harde nordmann from Somewher in mid Norway Since: Sep, 2009
Den harde nordmann
#2221: Dec 17th 2010 at 4:14:38 AM

Consonsidering that the king of heroes called that move completely and utterly ridicule, I doubt there will be enough drama around.

A guy called dvorak is tired. Tired of humanity not wanting to change to improve itself. Quite the sad tale.
Cherry_Lover Since: Nov, 2009
#2222: Dec 17th 2010 at 5:24:16 AM

Well, compare it to what Shirou does when fighting Berserker in HF. He traces Berserker's sword, and in the process picks up everything that Berserker could do with that sword, including Nine Lives, even though Berserker is too insane to use it.

So, yes, if he traced Assassin's sword whilst Assassin was holding it, he could use Tsubame Gaeshi.

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del_diablo Den harde nordmann from Somewher in mid Norway Since: Sep, 2009
Den harde nordmann
#2223: Dec 17th 2010 at 2:48:53 PM

But berserks sword is magical. The multislash with it got a root in that the sword can do that, it is a special ability.
He can't project another weapon and use the multislash, because the ability is not embed into the weapon.
Tsubame Gaeshi is not a special ability, it is a special skill. Give Zazaki a arming sword and a few minutes to learn the balance and reach, and he can most likely use Tsubame Gaeshi with that weapon too.

A guy called dvorak is tired. Tired of humanity not wanting to change to improve itself. Quite the sad tale.
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#2224: Dec 17th 2010 at 10:28:35 PM

Yes, Berserker's sword is supposedly a form of his bow, and is enchanted with the magical ability to hit 9 times at once. That is its ability as a Noble Phantasm, and Shirou using it to do that is no more mysterious than him using Rule Breaker to break contracts.

Tsubame Gaeshi is not a Noble Phantasm that is activated by putting mana into a weapon. It is a skill used by the wielder of the weapon, and he could presumably do it with any sword he was comfortable with (although his sword has more "experience" with it).

Cherry_Lover Since: Nov, 2009
#2225: Dec 18th 2010 at 8:09:34 AM

Lol, what? Berserker's sword isn't a "form of his bow". It's a chunk of rock that the Einsberns cut off from one of his temples to act as a catalyst and then formed into a weapon for him to use. It has no special abilities whatsoever. Nine Lives is Berserker's NP, and he can perform it with any weapon. If he were to pick up a shinai from Shirou's dojo, he would be able to do Nine Lives with it (were he sane...).

When Shirou traces a weapon, he gets the (directly relevant) skills and attributes of it's wielder (including their strength), hence why he is able to fight servants without getting his arm smashed off by the force of their blows, and hence why he's able to break through God Hand. Any skill that the wielder has that works through the weapon itself he will gain too, which includes Tsubame Gaeshi.

edited 18th Dec '10 8:13:50 AM by Cherry_Lover

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