Type-Moon: Fate/stay night, Tsukihime, and Kara no Kyoukai discussion

Oh THAT. Now I remember. I actually knew that would happen, I just don't recall which route it happened in.

Oh right, dumb mistake, since it's in HF where Shirou Rule Breakers Sakura.

I wouldn't call that the climax of the route, it was just the ending. The climax was obviously Shirou vs Archer and everything else was just cleaning up loose ends.

Ok, maybe climax isn't the right word. But it was still an enormously satisfying moment.

Voice (to Rin): "Get out of here. I don't want to hear your whining."

BOOM.

EDIT: I'm surprised Illya didn't get a bonus route of her own (I think this is what happens in the Triangle Heart game with Nanoha, although I don't know anything about that). I mean, it's not like you absolutely have to make it Squicky.

edited 5th Oct '09 2:07:26 AM by zeroplusalpha

Where can I download the VN?

PM'd you.

I was always kind of miffed that the nixed Caster and Rider routes (who are referenced in the Tiger Dojos) weren't in. That could have been fun.

It's like the equivalent of any harem anime having an After Story ending for a certain character.

Well...I suppose Shirou and Arturia do have an After Story ending, although exactly how you interpret that is kinda up for grabs.

Some people would call Hollow Ataraxia the Heaven's Feel after story.

EDIT: There are also some who that each of the consecutives routes are looped After Stories of each other, as Archer comes out with a number of things that suggest he's already experienced some of those events already. So you could construct a Clannad-esque time line

Fate (crappy choices) - > UBW (crappy choices ) - > HF (True End) - > Hollow Ataraxia

Fate (crappy choices) - > UBW (crappy choices) - > HF (Normal End) —loop— >

Fate (crappy choices) - > UBW (Crappy choices) —loop—>

Fate (perfect game) - > Last Episode

Or something like that.

edited 23rd Oct '09 12:30:08 AM by zeroplusalpha

I always thought the endings were all pretty satisfying. There were stuff I'd have liked to see, but that's more in the veins of alternate routes. (the "Shirou joins Caster" route that Ilya talks about especially)

I'd like to know too.

Got the VN working now, thanks 0+α

^You're most welcome. ^_^

Tell us what you think sometime.

I think even if Nasu sat down for about a day, he couldn't give us a satisfactory explanation of where exactly Archer is from. But then, Word of God in the Nasuverse has always been pretty iffy.

I suspect deliberately so.

I think even if Nasu sat down for about a day, he couldn't give us a satisfactory explanation of where exactly Archer is from...

The more important question is when, rather than where exactly Archer is from. We know where Archer's from ( Fuyuki, presumably); what we don't know is how his past meshes with any of Shirou's present continuities (or their immediate futures), as there are numerous indications that there's some kind of temporal recursion being effected.

For example, in HF (I think, or is in UBW?), there's a bit where Archer remarks to Shirou that his magic came at the price of an arm, and looks fondly at Ilya just before he dies. Of course, Shirou later loses his arm, and Ilya disappears in the HF True End, which suggests that Archer's history at least partly encompasses these events.

Then what's this I've been hearing that Archer's life kinda resembled the Fate route?

That might possibly be the effect of the recursion. It might not the same Archer every time the route changes.

Fate and UBW Archer might have a history most closely resembling Fate Shirou; this might not apply to HF Archer (both UBW endings are implied to have liberated Heroic Spirit Emiya from the cycle of guardianship anyway).

Ooooh, I get it. By the way, my fanfic? I dunno when I'll begin writing it. I think I fell in love with my Clannad fic all over again. /tangent

...both UBW endings are implied to have liberated Heroic Spirit Emiya from the cycle of guardianship anyway...

Actually, on thinking about this a bit more this isn't quite right either. I think Archer still goes on to serve, but the endings imply that UBW Shirou isn't going to weather the same fate.

I seem to agree with that interpretation too.

He can't be removed from the cycle. They made that extremely clear. Even his attempt to kill his past self was made out of frustration rather than any practical benefit it might have. At best what happened is that he has a renewed faith that he made the right choice, and no longer regrets his past. Of course, his future iterations will only remember this as the metaphorical book in the library rather than as a vivid experience, so it likely has no effect whatsoever. This particular Archer no longer regrets his life anyway, and I think that's good enough for a happy ending.

^That seems to be about right, I wasn't really thinking when I said that, although I did make an attempt to correct myself.

One thing bugs me, I know this is a Fate/Stay Night forum but it is said that Shiki's eyes can cut through anything even nothingness, does that mean they can cut through concepts, ideas or anything that keeps the universe together? How can you cut through a concept or idea?

^It's OK, the OP did mention that a Tsukihime is fine too.

It's not that Shiki's eyes can cut through anything, it's that his eyes enable him to visualise the conceptual end of things.

However, in Tsukihime proper he only brings about the end of tangible things, like vampires and um, corridors; he does this by inflicting abstractual death, but that's only because the concept manifests itself as visible lines and points along which he can cut using a knife (or similar object). Everything else that's said about his abilities you just have to take as read.

I don't know how he'd destroy something he can't see in the first place, like an emotion or something.

Note that there ARE limits to his powers: He can't actually harm berserk Arcueid for instance. (He has to cut *part of the earth itself* to death first) so for practical purposes? No.

To use a Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny example: He probably couldn't cut Galactus or beings of that scope.