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captainpat Since: Sep, 2010
#776: Dec 13th 2011 at 6:05:00 AM

Magnum Opus

No matter objective it tries to be in the description, it's still an Audience Reaction.

edited 13th Dec '11 6:05:11 AM by captainpat

djbj Since: Oct, 2010
#777: Dec 14th 2011 at 12:27:24 PM

Sampled Up needs a YMMV banner because it is a counterpart to Covered Up, which is YMMV.

MagBas Mag Bas from In my house Since: Jun, 2009
billybobfred Cosine! from renamed to wingedcatgirl Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#779: Jan 2nd 2012 at 1:01:44 AM

Does Awesome McCoolname need one? The article doesn't give an objective definition of a "cool" name, and I can't think of one off the top of my head.

she her hers hOI!!! i'm tempe
MagBas Mag Bas from In my house Since: Jun, 2009
CrypticMirror Cryptic Mirror from Scotland Since: Jan, 2001
#781: Jan 8th 2012 at 7:06:12 AM

Trigger has been split into the in-universe examples, and the social justice wank moved to a useful notes page. Can we now remove the YMMV banner since it isn't about what might "trigger" anyone in the audience, but just characters reacting badly to things?

MagBas Mag Bas from In my house Since: Jun, 2009
CrypticMirror Cryptic Mirror from Scotland Since: Jan, 2001
#783: Jan 8th 2012 at 7:17:41 AM

I'll get on a wick check right now then :o)

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
KrisMahai Hm? Since: Jan, 2013
Hm?
#785: Jan 8th 2012 at 10:31:23 AM

Not at all. Did you read the page?

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#786: Jan 8th 2012 at 3:52:35 PM

I did, something about this page just reminds me of that one. However, I may have said Hair-Trigger Temper when I meant Berserk Button.

Fight smart, not fair.
Zulfiqar Since: Dec, 2010
#787: Jan 10th 2012 at 12:00:17 AM

I hope I'm not posting this in the wrong thread and/or subforum; if so, I'm sorry :)

So... Rule of Cool.

It potholes YMMV right at the start of the article ("...there will naturally be a different threshold for each individual"). Then it states that it's "...a complement to Bellisario's Maxim and the MST3K Mantra", which are both YMMV. Then it repeats that "Rule of Cool is very subjective", potholing YMMV again.

And, thinking logically, what's the objective criteria for "cool"? Btw, the article suggests that we use The Utterly and Completely Definitive Guide to Cool, but it's even less objective (looks like someone's Just for Fun joke).

So... should it be YMMV, then? :)

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#788: Jan 10th 2012 at 12:11:21 AM

My guess would be no. Not because what's cool is subjective, but that something being done because the author thought it was cool is less so.

Fight smart, not fair.
Zulfiqar Since: Dec, 2010
#789: Jan 10th 2012 at 12:31:23 AM

Hmm, yes, I see your point. An author putting something into his work because he thought it's cool, is actually objective. I agree.

But then, maybe it needs an article rewrite? Because right now it sounds more like "if the audience thinks it's cool" rather than "if the author thought it's cool". And judging from some of the examples (though thankfully not all of them), some tropers tend to misunderstand it, too. E.g., a theremin isn't Rule of Cool in any way, it's just a weird and beautifully-sounding musical instrument.

Btw, what do you think about The Utterly and Completely Definitive Guide to Cool? Does it maybe need to be moved to Just for Fun?

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#790: Jan 10th 2012 at 1:24:54 AM

Rule of Cool is not subjective except insofar as it requires us to determine author intent.

Zulfiqar Since: Dec, 2010
#791: Jan 10th 2012 at 2:14:20 AM

I agree! But if Rule of Cool really means "the author adds an element because he thinks it's cool" and not "the audience is okay with a weird element because they think it's cool", then the article is rather non-indicative of that.

Let's see:

  • The rule itself: "The limit of the willing suspension of disbelief for a given element is directly proportional to the element's awesomeness." It doesn't say who perceives it as awesome: the author or you, the viewer.
  • The 2nd sentence: "Stated another way, all but the most pedantic of viewers will forgive liberties with reality as long as the result is wicked sweet or awesome." It specifically states that it's about the viewers' perception.
  • The 3rd sentence: "This applies to the audience in general; there will naturally be a different threshold for each individual." Again, it says it's about the audience. Note that the second half of this sentence contains a pothole to YMMV.
  • The 4th & 5th sentences, instead, indicate that this trope is about the author's perception.
  • The 6th sentence: "It is a complement to Bellisario's Maxim and the MST3K Mantra." Both of these tropes are YMMV, and denote somewhat distinct aspects of audience reaction.
  • The 7th sentence is an example that's not quite relevant to the trope in general.
  • The 8th sentence indicates that this trope is about the author's perception.
  • The 9th sentence is a non-sequitur, about quite a different (and in-universe) trope.
  • The 10th sentence: "Note also that different opinions on what is "cool" create the most arguments over this." Again, it's about different perceptions of "cool" among the audience (presumably; but then again, it doesn't mention, e.g., a conflict between the author's and the producer's perceptions of "cool"). Note that "the most arguments" is a pothole to Flame War.
  • The 11th sentence again potholes YMMV and explicitly states that Rule of Cool is "very subjective", implying that it's about the audience's perception.
  • The rather non-sequitur'ish 12th sentence, however, supports the theory that Rule of Cool is about the author's perception. Note, though, that the potholed by "Failure to properly use this trope" What Do You Mean, It's Not Awesome? is an unrelated trope, since it's not "Rule of Cool done wrong", but rather "the author makes something non-cool look cool".
  • The 13th sentence points us to The Utterly and Completely Definitive Guide to Cool, which, as I stated earlier, should probably go into the Just for Fun namespace, since it's not a trope.

So... is it about the author's or the audience's perception? The article has left me quite confused.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#792: Jan 10th 2012 at 2:54:21 AM

Eh, in most cases the entire purpose of doing something cool is to be striking. Given the tropes it's parent to, I'm inclined to think it's doing just find and not getting any of the abuse that YMMV, Audience Reaction or Trivia type pages get.

Fight smart, not fair.
Zulfiqar Since: Dec, 2010
#793: Jan 10th 2012 at 4:56:59 AM

Hmm, actually I somewhat disagree with you about some of the subtropes... But anyway, I guess this thread is not the right place to discuss this. I think I'll start a new discussion on this matter in TRS or Special Efforts.

Sorry for unintentionally off-topicking this thread smile

MagBas Mag Bas from In my house Since: Jun, 2009
#794: Jan 14th 2012 at 5:22:20 PM

Well, between Tuesday and Saturday, not appeared any thread about Rule of Cool in the Trope Repair Shop or Special Efforts, neither was put any post about it in the Trope Description Improvement thread in Special Efforts. With the current description, it definitively belongs to ymmv.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#795: Jan 17th 2012 at 2:53:41 AM

Lost in Medias Res is In Medias Res Done badly .... YMMV?

edited 17th Jan '12 2:53:56 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
ccoa Ravenous Sophovore from the Sleeping Giant Since: Jan, 2001
Ravenous Sophovore
#796: Feb 9th 2012 at 9:47:30 AM

Accidental Nightmare Fuel needs a YMMV banner. The disambig page Nightmare Fuel (which is actually a different page, it just looks the same when wicked until the custom titling goes away) probably needs its removed.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#797: Feb 9th 2012 at 12:43:28 PM

Looks like it already happened

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#798: Feb 17th 2012 at 10:45:40 PM

Misplaced-Names Poster

Probably should be Trivia. It's not a trope. The page itself says it doesn't know why it happens. It's void of meaning.

Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#799: Feb 18th 2012 at 10:18:15 AM

Proposed trivia pages go in the crowner on this thread.

FinalStarman from Clinton, Massachusetts Since: Nov, 2011
#800: Feb 22nd 2012 at 12:30:21 PM

Discontinuity does not need a YMMV banner. It is a disambiguation page, so it should never be listed on a YMMV page.

I'm not crazy, I just don't give a darn!

PageAction: YMMVBanner
6th Apr '12 3:44:26 AM

Crown Description:

YMMV is for items that are reactions of the audience to works and tropes that need a significant judgment call to tell whether they exist objectively or not.

Should these items become members of YMMV?

Note: Audience Reactions need to be subjective, emotional responses and things that are likely to cause arguments and disagreements. Merely being outside a work or inside an audience don't make things YMMV

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