I don't get why people hate Bagramon so much other than him being a usual case of Orcus on His Throne.
It's not like Digimon hasn't had situations where the Big Bad backstabs The Dragon before.
Just as an example, Vandemon wasn't that interesting as a villain, in essence,, Wizardmon was given a lot more development, precisely because of the backstabbing. I would imagine what becomes of Dark Knightmon being a hard thing for Yuu to deal with.
edited 15th Sep '11 8:54:58 PM by Clawshrimpy
Yeah guys, Bagramon is very clearly the intended Big Bad to DarkKnightmon's dragon. And when we also have Orcus on His Throne in the mix, having The Dragon do a lot more than the Big Bad until the final act is par for the course.
I, for one, couldn't really buy it if DarkKnightmon became the final baddie because, well, he's been too active for that. Despite his overall competence, we've seen him get beaten a bunch of times now, so his overall credibility is lower than Bagramon's.
Except Vamdemon actually went around and did stuff, and when he was just sitting around, I think he had reasons for that. Bagramon is definitely impressive when he actually fights, but the fact that he's actually shown to lounge kind of takes away from that. Besides, none of his plans would have come to fruition if it wasn't for Tactimon and DarkKnightmon. Tactimon was able to gather all the Code Crowns for Bagramon, and DarkKnightmon's status as Admiral (A promotion which let Bagramon shoot himself in the foot) meant that he could orchestrate much of what happened.
I've heard that Bagramon is a perfect example of a king who is actually not supposed to do anything because he has his subordinates to do the work, but Tactimon and DarkKnightmon's actions simply made them into more compelling villains. The events that lead up to DarkKnightmon's betrayal were fine when it came to establishing the Final Boss. My only problem is that DarkKnightmon's moment of proving himself as The Starscream is going to be undone.
Of course, no matter what happens, I'm sure it will be better than the next season.
I never really liked it when Vandemon would "show off" his powers, as until he was defeated, it ended up being a series of Curb-Stomp Battle situations. And when he went to earth to look for the last child, he did rely on his army a lot to do the work for him, even though several of them were questioning his leadership. But I suppose a detailed search and establishing control of the Odaiba area would kinda REQUIRE an army, I guess.
But I suppose the reason I like Bagramon because I like those types of villains who hold their hand and never show too much. but then again, I liked Pasder for that reason, so it's probably just a personal thing. Bagramon strikes me as villain who doesn't like to get involved because perhaps his fate might be tied to the Digital World in some way, or that he simply doesn't want to exert himself against a bunch of humans and weaker Digimon he might view as "insects"
edited 16th Sep '11 12:39:37 PM by Clawshrimpy
Not to mention Vamdemon became a massive villain sue by the end of his arc, where he blows away attacks from ultimate levels and threw back Mega Kabuterimon just by POINTING at him, you know his arc had to end soon.
But at least his end was satisfying and classic when it happened. BelialVamdemon, on the other hand, has probably not only one of the most humilating defeats in digimon history, and anime in general, but probably one of the most humilating defeats I've seen in ANY form of media, you know there can be better villains that.
Watch SymphogearAlso, I don't think it's a good idea to say Xros's new season will automatically be bad based on magazine pictures. People said that back when Xros was first announced, but I'd like to think the show was not as bad as people made it out to be. But, due to Digimon's massive Broken Base there are still purists who will not accept anything different.
Honestly, I've loved the show thus far and I hope the second series is strong. I remember saying once that Xros Wars is "the best mecha show in years" jokingly which caused some of my friends to have aneurisms.
Yeah, Vamdemon became of Villain Sue, but I think he was just more entertaining to watch than Bagramon has ever been, BelialVamdemon notwithstanding. As for Paser, from what I've seen of GaoGaiGar, wasn't it actually impossible for him to do anything? A friend of mine joked that Bagramon was Xrossed with "Thronemon", which was the case for Pasder. When the villain is actually imprisoned and is actually forced to work through their subordinates, then that's fine.
I was perfectly excited for when Xros Wars was announced. I just don't like that we're getting three new characters with Xros Loaders while there's no indication that Zenjirou and Akari will get any, and Taigiru has an incredibly stupid character design and looks like a rehash of Davis, and the synopsis of the first episode has me tempted to call him a Black Hole Sue. I also don't particularly like Yuu, so I don't want to see them continue on with how he's a blatant Expy of Ken. I wouldn't even be surprised if Gumdramon and Tuwarmon got evolutions and then a DigiXros just for the sake of repeating Shoutmon DX and Imperialdramon. I'm usually excited to see something new from Digimon, but this is first time where I've actually been against a new installment of Digimon. I'll definitely give it a chance, but I don't have high hopes quite yet.
I somewhat like to joke that Xros Wars has been stealing my ideas, so I'm only interested in seeing how Dracmon works as a partner Digimon.
Hating something and saying it sucks just because of what the character designs look like on scans is petty, and let me explain it this way, Adventure 02 wasn't great because the writing fell to pieces in it's second half, not because the characters were just BAD and Sues from the outset. everyone comparing Tagiru to Daisuke are silly, just because he looks a little like him and his Digimon is a V-mon alike, does not mean his character will be written the same way as late-02 Daisuke. Hillariously, people were saying the same thing about Taiki in the beginning, but, despite more development being given to Nene, Yuu, and Kiriha, Taiki's proven himself as a competent, well-written lead.
Akari and Zenjirou were just following him around, and the show was never really about them. Think of them like some of the temporary companions from the Doctor Who series. they served their purpose pretty well I think, and I don't really think they need to be brought back for the story to work!
But on the other hand, if Akari and Zenjirou were never going to be anything more than Hangers-on and tag-alongs, WHY THE FUCK WERE THEY EVEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE?!! It's not like they were completely pointless, but it's still a little strange.
One Strip! One Strip!I know that designs aren't enough reason to hate a character, but the fact that the plot seems to be based around Taigiru for some reason just reminds me of Daisuke. He seems to be more reminiscent of early-Daisuke. It's been ages since I saw 02, so I need to familiarize myself again with why it became a disaster.
Akari and Zenjirou were definitely just Taiki companions, and I thought that they deserved to receive Xros Loaders. What makes the four new kids more qualified to receive Xros Loaders than Zenjirou and Akari? They've already helped out Taiki, so they have more experience, and they deserve better recognition for that.
edited 16th Sep '11 7:37:19 PM by Roxas
You've never heard of Passing the Torch?
I like it when the old generations hands over the reigns to a new one. It's really not a bad concept in of itself, 02's problem was that it wasn't executed well. It's a story and group of characters that COULD HAVE worked, but the writers could not pull it off, especially towards the ending.
Why bring back Akari and Zenjorou when they served their purpose? Why not let Yuu step into the role of a Hero like Ken had to in 02? and why not introduce new characters while you're at it?
I'm not really excited about this new kid, Tagiru, being the leader, but I am excited by the new season. I hope that Taiki, Tagiru, and Yuu are about equally competent. Despite all the hate for DigimonAdventure02, it's still my second favorite season (Xros Wars is my favorite). I know that the plot of 02 crashed and burned after the Emperor arc, but I came to love Ken and like Miyako, Iori, Takeru, and Hikari. I was even able to stand Davis after I read enough good fanfiction with him. I agree that Yuu is a Ken Expy, but I like Ken so I don't mind much. I would like their situations to be a little more different, though.
Daisuke had his moments of greatness.
Taking a third option when Ken tries to force him to choose which of his friends will die.
Being the only one willing to consider that Ken might genuinely want to redeem himself. (Okay Takeru did as well, but only after he saw Daisuke trying, and he never said anything).
And being the only one willing to try and fight Belial Vamdemon when everybody else was too terrified of him to even try to fight (and while Vamdemon went out like a punk, I always will remember that he's the only villain to literally terrify the heroes into inaction. Nobody else ever put the fear in any Digmon heroes like he did).
So was he kind of stupid and annoying? Yes, but he had his good points.
One Strip! One Strip!No, 02 didn't do Passing the Torch well. That's why I would have preferred Takeru as the main character. As Yamato's brother, he deserves it more. That's sort of what they're doing with Yuu, but I don't find his backstory as interesting as Ken's. Another problem I had with 02 was how, by the end of the season, everyone in the entire world had a Digimon, essentially screwing up The Chosen Many idea it presented earlier, which furthermore messed with the first season's emphasis on the Digi-Destined.
Bring back Zenjirou and Akari to give them another purpose. The idea of passing on something to the new generation isn't a bad idea. In fact, it's one of the things I love the most about Naruto, but I don't feel that it's necessary to have that happen here. Having Yuu become a hero could result in him doubling as The Atoner, but that would still make him a slave to replicating Ken's role. I feel that Yuu needs to become his own character, but what I see of that happening with Yuu results in him being an annoying brat. Whatever the team ends up like, it ultimately depends on what happens to not only Zenjirou and Akari, but Kiriha and Nene as well. It's definitely too early to decide what the series will be like, but these are just my initial expectations.
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I just don't think Akari and Zenjirou would have what it takes to be in for the long haul as Generals. Akari was the only one of the kids to feel homesick, and Zenjirou just wanted to protect Akari anyway, so they don't really have a reason to come back. If anything, it should be something of a victory they made it home.
Their problem is they don't really have a compelling motivation to battle, during their tenure following Taiki around, they only got fired up for the sake of helping Taiki. Where, you look at Kiriha and Nene, they both had very important things motivating them.
edited 16th Sep '11 9:33:48 PM by Clawshrimpy
Shoutmon temporarily died!
And the preview for the final episode shows Shoutmon X7 turning golden ala Golden Zatch Bell or Gao Gai Gar with a the Goldion Hammer or Goldion Crusher.
I would wait till tomarrow to watch it though, since the quality will be better overall.
edited 17th Sep '11 4:00:39 PM by Demongodofchaos2
Watch SymphogearKarmic Death much, DarkKnightmon? Also fuck yeah WarGreymon and Examon!

Methinks they should have just designed the brothers' Xros differently, that way making DarkKnightmon the dominant personality would make more sense and wouldn't so obviously resemble something that is supposed to be temporary.