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The Legend Of Zelda - General Thread

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Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#41151: Jul 12th 2021 at 2:45:36 PM

Who was more a psychopathic manchild, Zant or Master Kohga?

Both are childish but Zant is far more psychopathic.

Edited by Perseus on Jul 12th 2021 at 7:45:51 PM

PhoenixAct Since: Feb, 2011
#41152: Jul 12th 2021 at 3:46:02 PM

I always thought wisdom was separate from intelligence? What was it? "Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put a tomato in a fruit salad".

Having the Triforce of Wisdom wouldn't help you scheme, it'd probably give you insight and give you perspective on what your ambition is actually accomplishing.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#41153: Jul 12th 2021 at 3:59:52 PM

Wisdom and intelligence are the same thing,it's only Dungeons and dragons that decided they should be separate since Mages rely on intelligence to cast and memorize spells and Clerics rely on their wisdom to serve their God

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Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#41154: Jul 12th 2021 at 4:03:13 PM

Nonsense. A person can very easily be both intelligent and foolish.

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#41155: Jul 12th 2021 at 4:15:10 PM

i.e. book smart vs street smart

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PhoenixAct Since: Feb, 2011
#41156: Jul 12th 2021 at 4:41:49 PM

So I decided to look up the definition of wisdom, and this is what I've got:

Wisdom, sapience, or sagacity is the ability to think and act using knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense and insight. Wisdom is associated with attributes such as unbiased judgment, compassion, experiential self-knowledge, self-transcendence and non-attachment, and virtues such as ethics and benevolence.

There were a few other definitions, but they all seem to share the idea that knowledge is only an aspect of being wise, and not the whole thing. Basically, knowing what you're talking about helps you to make good decisions, but you also need other virtues to go along with it in order to be considered wise.

Also, if we consider "compassion" and "benevolence" as prerequisites to being considered wise, most bad guys fail by default.

Edited by PhoenixAct on Jul 12th 2021 at 12:43:22 PM

Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#41157: Jul 12th 2021 at 5:43:56 PM

They could be well-intentioned extremists or have severe gaps in their compassion, I suppose.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#41158: Jul 12th 2021 at 6:55:08 PM

Wisdom and intelligence are extremely different things, yeah. Intelligence is knowing that tomatoes are fruit, wisdom is knowing you shouldn't put one in your fruit salad, etc.

That said, it also seems like each of the Triforce wielders is perfectly capable of having the other aspects, they just don't embody them. Without power and wisdom, Link wouldn't be able to clear dungeons - he would just charge foolhardily into the first giant boss or puzzle he saw and die. Without courage, Zelda wouldn't have reported Ganondorf to her father, and without power she wouldn't have been a match for Ganon with light arrows. Ganondorf... may not have much of either courage or wisdom, possibly? We don't see a lot of his internal world, after all. If he was Hijacked by Ganon himself as has been implied in later games, he wouldn't need courage to fulfill his destiny, and he doesn't seem interested in being a wise or compassionate ruler, just in bringing destruction.

It's been fun.
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#41159: Jul 12th 2021 at 7:27:01 PM

Ganondorf is clearly leaning to just Power, which is why the Triforce split when he touched it and only had the Triforce of Power left. The Triforce would have had a greater chance at staying united if it was Link or Zelda who touched it instead.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#41160: Jul 12th 2021 at 7:38:10 PM

Yeah. It's not that Ganondorf is dumb or cowardly.

It's that given the chance, he still defaults to brute force, because it works.

Wisdom is also experience, and in his experience, use brute power to accomplish goals is pretty effective.

He's also shown patience, like when he just waited for Link to open the door to the sacred realm.

As for courage, he's faced off against Link and Zelda multiple times, even though they usually possess all the tools to stomp him flat. That may be more arrogance than courage though, but he's never backed down for a big final fight.

Even Calamity Ganon shows a weird kind of wisdom, learning from his previous defeat and using the tools of his enemies against him when he comes back, though he also had much more going in his favour than that.

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RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#41161: Jul 12th 2021 at 7:58:23 PM

Yeah, my general thinking was that it may not matter if Ganondorf the man has courage about his destiny, since Ganon the evil god seems... let's call "persistent" an understatement.

It's been fun.
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
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#41162: Jul 12th 2021 at 11:15:36 PM

I think people tend to overlook the fact that Ganon is really not suited to wield the power of the Triforce. His endless greed and arrogance are always his undoing. He has no wisdom to see beyond his personal desires nor does he have the courage to let go of something he wants. Ganon is truly defined by his lust for power, and power is what consumes him in the end.

Oh sure, he may have semblance of wisdom and courage. But they are never true wisdom or courage, just a intelligent mind and a bloodthristy mindset. As long as he craves for power in his own selfish viewpoint, he'll always lose in the end.

It should also be noted that prior to Ocarina of Time, Nintendo had another candidate to fulfill the role of bearer of Triforce of Power. It's Impa. She was meant to be the third Triforce bearer and Ganon was just another bad guy. Imagine if Nintendo reintroduced that old concept. Especially with young Impa from Age of Calamity.

Edited by Shadao on Jul 12th 2021 at 11:18:49 AM

Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#41163: Jul 12th 2021 at 11:47:02 PM

It sort of sounds like Power should never have been separated from Wisdom and Courage.

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#41164: Jul 13th 2021 at 12:33:26 AM

The problem of making Ganondorf/Ganon one of the Triforce Bearers is that he always opposes Link and Zelda rather be allies with them (except for Smash Bros, ironically enough).

There's never a moment where we see the three bearers of the Triforce unite together and fight a common threat in the main Zelda games, and show what the full might of the Triforce could really do. And I think it would be an interesting direction to take the Zelda franchise... if the bearer of the Triforce of Power is not the Big Bad.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#41165: Jul 13th 2021 at 1:10:11 AM

@Durazno: Ideally they're all supposed to be wielded together, by three people working as one (or by one person who is worthy of all three)... or just not by mortal hands at all. But the fact that the Triforce of Power has been so firmly linked with Demise is part of the reason why things keep getting so bad when a new Demise cycle starts up.

It's been fun.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41166: Jul 13th 2021 at 1:50:38 AM

[up] More like Ganondorf since it was him who got the triforce not Demise. I do recall speculation that Demise himself couldn't actually use the triforce since he's not mortal but that could be wrong.

Why Ganondorf is power is simple, he covets it more than anything. His desire for power made him forget his desire to save his people, hell he killed the other Gerudo in the Sacred Realm who went with him so he didn't have to share the Triforce. He doesn't think Courage or Wisdom is as valuable as power.

I guess since he got the Triforce first in Ocarina and the resulting time plot shit results in it connecting to him just as it did to Link and Zelda's descendants in TP.

Also as far as I recall, no, the Triforce hasn't been used by three people at once, it's supposed to be wielded by one who has balanced desires for Power, Wisdom and Courage, it's how Link is able to use it in ALTTP without it splitting.

@Shadao

Yeah, like that's what happens when someone's heart isn't balanced, they seem to get consumed by their piece.

Luckily Link has his adventures to grow so he's ready to use the Triforce at the end like ALLTP.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jul 13th 2021 at 5:01:23 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#41167: Jul 13th 2021 at 3:01:35 AM

Demise could use the Triforce because he’s a demon and not a god.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 13th 2021 at 3:01:43 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#41168: Jul 13th 2021 at 5:04:49 AM

He's so evil he probably could taint the Tri-force

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RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41169: Jul 13th 2021 at 5:14:30 AM

Oh man, that reminds me back when A Link between worlds was coming out, and there was all sorts of speculation about the Dark Triforce.

Then it turns out it was just a destroyed Triforce.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#41170: Jul 13th 2021 at 5:59:46 AM

They did restore it in the ending, so there's definitely sequel fodder.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#41171: Jul 13th 2021 at 7:24:44 AM

Demise could use the Triforce because he’s a demon and not a god.

Ironic that Hylia couldn't use it to just end his threat, but he could wield it if he could get his hands on it. Makes you think Nayru, Din and Faore didn't think things through completely.

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RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41172: Jul 13th 2021 at 10:15:56 AM

[up] Maybe it's because of the nature of their being and not something the Goddesses can actually alter.

Mind you, Hylia and Demise are pretty lore contradicting additions to the series so perhaps we shouldn't think too hard about the triforce bit.

I kinda wish Din, Nayru and Farore were in the spotlight for once.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#41173: Jul 13th 2021 at 10:27:05 AM

Hyralia gets the focus as she's Zelda but the three goddess don't,my guess is that they want to keep them mysterious

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RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#41174: Jul 13th 2021 at 10:33:18 AM

Hylia is pretty weird in that she's basically Zelda but a goddess.

And then becomes Zelda.

I mean, Zelda is already sort of connected to Nayru through the triforce of wisdom, but she gets TWO goddess to rub shoulders with.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#41175: Jul 13th 2021 at 10:35:48 AM

I think the point is Hyralia actually does something and the other three and content to watch from afar

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