Lopen lost an arm at some point. He's clearly been through some traumatic shit. I don't think that the Radiants needing to be "broken" in order for the nahel bond to take hold means they need to have an active mental illness, I think it's something more akin to snapping for allomancers. Snapping is caused by enduring physical harm, but you don't have to be permanently maimed in order to snap — the same would be true of mental or emotional pain for would-be Radiants.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.brokenness is not necessarily important, but it also doesn´t hurt ones chances
at least thats how i read it. Shallan was also able to bond to Pattern and progress pretty far in her oaths, way before her trauma started. Lopens arm could have "snapped" him but i always thought physical trauma isn´t what snapped people, it was the emotions (like fear) that were induced by the beating.
Kelsier grew up as a noble and so was surely beaten near to death to snap him, but in the end he snapped much later, because of emotional pain.
I stand by my belief The Lopen neither is nor was ever broken in any way, shape or form, he is just the concept of optimism given human form and so can´t be broken^^
Edited by Samaldin on Mar 28th 2020 at 11:37:20 AM
IIRC Kelsier snapped after the guards beat him nearly to death for trying to stop them from beating his wife actually to death.
It's certainly possible that the emotional (rather than physical) aspect of a near-death experience is what snaps people, but there's no evidence to support that that I'm aware of. Noble children getting the shit kicked out of them know that they're not going to die, but they still snap. It seems to be something akin to a fight-or-flight response — an involuntary physiological reaction, not a psychological or emotional one.
Edited by NativeJovian on Mar 28th 2020 at 7:43:31 AM
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.Kelsier's situation was noted to be a bit odd, though, since he was beaten as a child and he had plenty of physical and emotional traumas throughout his life. The Survivorists even believe he was made a Mistborn by direct divine intervention (kinda like what happened to Elhokar, but without the lerasium bead), and Secret History has a line implying that might actually be the case.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.I read the Mistborn series ages ago so take this with a grain of salt.
Maybe both types of trauma are needed? Or at least a certain baseline of emotional trauma.
So maybe some noble houses give too much information to their kids who might have time to accept the short term pain to see if they can Snap?
Whereas I'm sure many houses would not tell them its coming, or be a bad enough environment that getting beaten worse for not Snapping is plausible.
EDTI:Still doesn't gel that well with Kel not Snapping sooner.
Edited by 32ndfreeze on Mar 28th 2020 at 11:19:15 PM
This idea people need to be broken is very dumb to me.
Are we to believe the hundreds of Knights Radiant were all beaten or depressed or both? The one in Dalinar's vision of the small village just says if you have leaddrship or combat skills, come to us. Not that "we will also beat the shit out of you until you can manifest powers."
She wasn't promising him knighthood, just training. The Radiants had plenty of support staff (squires don't quite count, since they're expected to be knights eventually). If someone non-broken comes to Urithiru, then that's fine. Give them some combat training, give them some social training to make sure they don't use their new skills to be a bully, and send them back home. There were always more ordinary soldiers than Radiants.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.It wasn't here, but I saw someone raise the issue of Adolin potentially becoming an Edgedancer. And them not wanting every major character to be a Radiant.
That discussion and this one got me thinking.
Brandon has talked about the process for gaining magic in the Cosmere to require cracks in the Spiritweb.
What if Adolin somehow figures out how to form a Nahel bond in reverse? Being the stability to shore up Mayalaran's cracks. Possibly with the intervention of some other technology or magic.
So Maya would be the one gaining powers in the Physical Realm, and he could become the leader of a new order/organisation in the Radiant's by the time of Books 6-10.
Edited by 32ndfreeze on Mar 29th 2020 at 4:38:28 AM
I'm not sure if Sanderson will want to make Adolin a Radiant tbh, one of the reasons Adolin is pretty popular is because of his Badass Normal status.
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."I think Adolin will be something like a "Half-radiant". Maya will be revived and bonded to Adolin, but not through the Nahel-bond but by the bond between Shardbearer and Shardblade, meaning she will be able to change her form and be summoned instantly, but Adolin will not gain surgebinding. Mayas revival itself would also most likely be far more important to the war effort than an additional radiant. All these Spren refusing to help or working against humanity for killing their parents and grandparents, suddenly gaining hope that they could be revived. Could lead to a heavy blow against Odium.
Brandon released an article on his website explaining the Ten Orders of Knights Radiant
.
I had to refresh the page ten times before it would load because so many people are trying to access it.
Highlights, since you probably won't be able to get to the page for a couple of hours:
- Windrunners tend to have more squires than other orders.
- Skybreakers weren't Knight Templars before Nale took over. They used to understand that the law was imperfect.
- Dustbringer ideals are about learning to restrain their destructive power. They see their powers about controlling and understanding as opposed to mere destruction.
- Edgedancers tended to be the most religious order. Some of their member were religious leaders who bonded a spren.
- Truthwatchers are scholars who have made many advances in surgebinding and fabrials.
- Lightweavers are sometimes said to be closer to Cultivation than Honor.
- Elsecallers "seek self-improvement and personal betterment in their lives, but aren’t limited to one specific theme or set of Ideals." They are regarded as the wisest of the Orders.
- Willshaper ideals are focused on freedom and personal fulfillment. They are generally focused on building.
- Stoneward ideals focus on teamwork.
- Bondsmith ideals and abilities vary depending on which of the three spren they bond.
Edited by lrrose on Jun 9th 2020 at 3:46:27 PM
Ha, I just came here to post that. It also comes with a Which Order Are You
personality quiz. I took it straight and as honestly as possible and got Windrunner as my top match (75%), then Elsecaller (71%) and Edgedancer (69%). Bottom three are Dustbringer (52%), Bondsmith (58%), and Lightweaver (62%). The remainder are all virtual ties in the middle, between 63 and 66 percent.
The most interesting highlights (that lrrose didn't already mention) is a short description of how each individual Order functioned within the larger organization of the Knights Radiant generally. Windrunners and Stonewards were the main combat troops, with Stonewards as more conventional infantry and Windrunners acting more like special forces units. Skybreakers were the policing force, keeping the peace and holding even other Radiants accountable for misdeeds. Dustbringers were artillery and combat engineers, providing both indiscriminate carnage over large areas and small, precise destructive effects for specific purposes. Edgedancers were combat medics, and during peacetime tended to live in communities they served, providing healing and generally working for the common good. Truthwatchers tended to be the researchers and inventors, developing technology like fabrials. Lightweavers were artists and entertainers, but also skilled at spying and subterfuge. Elsecallers tended to produce competent leaders, including the Radiant's best tacticians, and their ability to soulcast and skill at moving through Shadesmar made them brilliant at logistical support. Willshapers were best in a support role, building infrastructure and fortifications. Bondsmiths were the emotional core of the Radiants as a whole, and tended to be peacemakers and diplomats more than leaders, but they were the ones who kept the Orders working smoothly together and kept the Radiants and everyone else working toward the same goals.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.Nice quiz! I got Truthwatcher (81%), with the next-closest being Edgedancer, Windrunner, Skybreaker, and Elsecaller (all in the 55-58% range).
Truthwatchers are largely reserved and academic, but can nonetheless be very opinionated. Seems to fit. Also, I like it because if I could have a superpower, healing would be near the top of the list.
Somehow I had thought of Elsecaller as the scholarly order, because of Jasnah.
My moral ideal is Edgedancer, but my personality doesn’t fit it as well.
Lowest marks are for Dustbringer, Lightweaver, and Bondsmith. Don’t know enough about the former, but the latter two make sense - I am neither creative nor a leadership/people person.
EDIT: The details on the different Orders are interesting.
Edited by Galadriel on Jun 9th 2020 at 6:25:11 AM
I sort of assume that most Orders had some manner of support staff. Even with squires, there's just too much stuff to do and better ways a Radiant's time can be spent than on the mundane work of keeping any sufficiently large organization running.
That said, it's interesting that the Bondsmiths allowed people to swear the oaths and considered them full Bondsmiths despite having no spren to bond, and therefore not only lacked the ability to channel stormlight, but also had no actual objective measure of their holding to their oaths.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

That was what ifigured, anyway. But Jasnah would be long dead if that happened so I guess I figured wrong.
Interesting theory and facts, BTW. I remember some of that now you point it out to me. But fuck, if we have to wait until Book 10, I won't remember any of that in 20 years.