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Nonus The Lounger from Wherever I can be Since: Aug, 2012
The Lounger
#251: Mar 17th 2014 at 12:01:34 PM

Lift will do much better when we get her in a main chapter I think.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#252: Mar 17th 2014 at 12:13:48 PM

The slaver subplot didn't bother me at all — the point was less the physical danger of "semi-captured by slavers" and more about Shallan's character development in learning to act commanding. I will say that Words of Radiance handled that particular character arc very well — Shallan's rather traumatic growth from a timid smartass into a commanding, confidence presence was both believable and fun to read. She's always had the capacity, she just needed to bring it out, and the circumstances she found herself in forced her into it. Certainly she wouldn't have had the same level of growth if she'd remained in Jasnah's care.

Actually, it sort of reminds me of Mass Effect, where it's noted that serving under Shepard is actually stifling Garrus's development into a leader in his own right.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#253: Mar 17th 2014 at 1:08:51 PM

I'm surprised people didn't like Lift. I thought she was funny and awesome.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#254: Mar 17th 2014 at 2:40:04 PM

I didn't have a problem with Lift. I had a problem with her chapter, or the first half of it anyway. Not really sure why, but it kinda felt like a slog.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#255: Mar 17th 2014 at 3:32:43 PM

Timid smartass to confident, commanding smartass is always a fun evolution to witness.

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#256: Mar 18th 2014 at 7:09:50 AM

So, Zahel is totally Vasher, right? Also, I so wanna know who's Nazh (the one who writes the footnote on Shallan's sketches of Pattern).

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
Shale Since: Jan, 2001
#257: Mar 18th 2014 at 7:34:12 AM

Yes, he absolutely is.

Nazh is a guy named Nazh. We don't know what's special about him but we do know he travels between worlds, because he drew pictures of people in The Alloy Of Law, too.

edited 18th Mar '14 7:35:52 AM by Shale

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#258: Mar 18th 2014 at 7:49:24 AM

There's definitely something special about him, given that he's able to (for example) retrieve at least one of Shallan's sketches from the bottom of the ocean after the shipwreck.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#259: Mar 18th 2014 at 8:36:35 AM

Heh, I didn't even realize that. Considering that his notes are clearly talking to someone, I assumed he was one of the Parshendi spies in the warcamps, reporting back to Eshonai.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Shale Since: Jan, 2001
#260: Mar 18th 2014 at 8:40:29 AM

Nah, he's human, or at least human-looking. Some of the bridgemen actually point him out in an early chapter, though not by name - they talk about an ardent who's been sitting nearby staring at them and drawing for hours. And then we get a sketch of the freed slaves' forehead tattoos, signed by Nazh, where he says he spent hours watching the bridgemen to get reference material.

edited 18th Mar '14 8:40:47 AM by Shale

Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#261: Mar 18th 2014 at 8:44:13 AM

Ah, yes. And he didn't seem happy about it.

Nonus The Lounger from Wherever I can be Since: Aug, 2012
The Lounger
#262: Mar 18th 2014 at 8:48:52 AM

I honestly thought Zahel was a Herald when I was reading. My instincts were a bit off...

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#263: Mar 18th 2014 at 9:12:32 AM

@Shale: Hm, I hadn't noticed that. I had sort of been assuming that he was going around investigating the story after the fact for some reason, but you're right — that mention of the ardent was probably a reference to Nazh.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Funden u wot m8 from the maintenance tunnels Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: It's complicated
u wot m8
#264: Mar 18th 2014 at 10:27:05 AM

Holy crap, I didn't even make the connection between the ardent and the sketches.

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#265: Mar 18th 2014 at 10:36:22 AM

And that is why you always read Sanderson's books twice.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#266: Mar 18th 2014 at 6:03:07 PM

So, a question occurred to me. Given what we learn about soulcasting in Words of Radiance (name the fact that the soulcaster basically has to negotiate with the object being changed in order to convince it to accept the change), what the hell would that have looked like when Jasnah turned that dude into fire in Way of Kings? That must've been one hell of an offer she made his body.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#267: Mar 18th 2014 at 6:26:22 PM

Well, we don't know exactly how it works, since Shallan has only successfully Soulcast twice. We just don't have enough details yet. My guess is that the thing you're supposed to offer is Stormlight—so Jasnah just used a whole lot more than she would have had to when transmuting something else. I don't remember the precise details of the scene, but maybe it was a loophole, too, like Soulcasting his clothes to fire rather than himself. But I can't remember if he just burned to death, or was actually turned into fire.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Zizoz Since: Feb, 2010
#268: Mar 18th 2014 at 7:32:19 PM

It specifically says that he "became fire", rather than burning.

edited 18th Mar '14 7:33:13 PM by Zizoz

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#269: Mar 18th 2014 at 7:54:58 PM

He was explicitly soulcast directly into fire; when Shallan is remembering the scene later on, she describes him as becoming fire rather than burning. From what we see of Shallan's attempts to soulcast, you have to get the object to agree to the change to want it to make, in accordance with its purpose. The ship wanted to continue to serve its crew — it only agreed to change after Shallan convinced it that the best way to help them was to sink. Her problem with the stick was that it didn't really have a purpose (and, being rather less complex than a ship, it was correspondingly rather dull in Shadesmar). It did seem to hesitate when she offered it stormlight, but the impression I get is that stormlight is just the fuel for the transformation, to actually make it happen you have to convince the object's cognitive piece that it should change. Granted, some of that comes from The Emperors Soul, where the physical/cognitive/spiritual realms are briefly explained in reference to , but it is all the Cosmere, so it should still apply. In any case, Emperor's Soul says that making an item want to transform can be the make-or-break point of a successful or unsuccessful transformation, and the same thing seems to apply in Words of Radiance.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
shale Since: Jan, 2001
#270: Mar 18th 2014 at 8:27:45 PM

It may be that Jasnah takes a different tactic entirely and simply intimidates things into being what she wants then to be.

Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#271: Mar 18th 2014 at 8:53:22 PM

"I am a stick."

"You are fire."

"I am a stick."

"You. Are. Fire."

"...okay. I am fire."

Funden u wot m8 from the maintenance tunnels Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: It's complicated
u wot m8
#272: Mar 18th 2014 at 10:14:02 PM

Perhaps Soulcasting humans is different? They might not be able to deny being Soulcast, since they don't have spren in them, but souls (supposedly). For example, when Shallan was Soulcast, she never confirmed or denied it, but merely let it happen.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#273: Mar 18th 2014 at 10:28:18 PM

Well, she was unconscious at that point, so we don't know how that would look from a normal perspective. And Jasnah seemed to be careful to tell her what was about to happen, and what she was going to do (and that she wasn't very good at it). It could have been a simple "Don't freak out and screw up my concentration," or she could have been starting the Soulcasting trade discussion.

Like I said, we don't have enough scenes from the POV of the Soulcaster to know much. And that's not even getting into the fact that Soulcaster fabrials apparently work entirely differently. Let's not forget that throwaway line when Adolin found the ardents Soulcasting during the day due to time constraints, and apparently the ones who use the Soulcaster are slowly transformed into living statues.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Nonus The Lounger from Wherever I can be Since: Aug, 2012
The Lounger
#274: Mar 18th 2014 at 10:33:14 PM

Do Jasnah's and Shallan's soulcasting work the same though?

Do we have any idea what Elhokar was seeing or why it went away?

edited 18th Mar '14 10:39:46 PM by Nonus

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#275: Mar 19th 2014 at 1:00:52 PM

Don't know about Jasnah's versus Shallan's Soulcasting. They seem to be the same, but we still don't know how the different surges interact with each other to be sure.

And as for Elhokar, he was seeing some kind of spren, apparently Cryptics judging by his description. It's odd that they'd leave when Kaladin showed up, but maybe they just didn't want to get near an honorspren if they could help it. The real question is why they're following Elhokar. The implication is that he would become a Radiant if he wasn't so freaked out by them, probably related to how he (like Shallan) has confidence issues that he can overcome with "lies," as the Cryptics call it. I think we'll find out more next book, as now everyone knows how Radiants are made, and they'll be able to figure out that the spren following him around are trying to bond with him.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.

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