Seconded and courtesy Link: Straight Gay
Cutmaster-san
Courtesy links are now redundant. Take a look at the link up in the thread title.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Ah, indeed. Never ming then
I see the Awesomeness.
Question, is this trope "A gay man who acts more or less conventionally masculine" or "A gay man with no camp mannerisms?" For some reason, I think there's a distinction since this isn't a Spear Counterpart to Lipstick Lesbian really. I think. I'm confused.
from dreams
"Question, is this trope "A gay man who acts more or less conventionally masculine" or "A gay man with no camp mannerisms?" For some reason, I think there's a distinction since this isn't a Spear Counterpart to Lipstick Lesbian really. I think. I'm confused."
It's pretty much both, near as I can tell. It's arguable that this is the Spear Counterpart to Lipstick Lesbian, but Hard Gay and Camp Gay can make those claims just as easily.
@Deboss: What's your point? Those links will get changed over time.
...Because Jeb Bush is all in my house with disease.
It's not just the links. It's the fact that this is one of the most referenced tropes from outside the wiki.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Devil's advocate: so it's okay to be offensive towards (admittedly, just some) gay people by using this phrase because everyone does it? :)
Calling some gay people gay offends them. There is no real PC term for anyone that isn't offensive to at least some large portion of the people it applies to. At what point do we cut it off?
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
I just find it funny that a wiki that finds Unfortunate Implications all over the place is just fine with offending some people because they don't want to be too PC. ;)
Seriously, though, possible idea: we default to what the groups in question want to be called all the time (IRL, not on this wiki). Is there a term within the gay community for this type of person that is generally accepted? Or are we out of luck there because of the previously mentioned diversity of opinion?
That's not quite true. We tend to call them what we think they should want to be called. Not what they actually want to be called. Often times it just comes off as patronizing.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
^Congrats. You made it more offensive.
edited 2nd Oct '10 9:51:07 PM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Speaking as a guy who sleeps with guys, I've never had a problem with Straight Gay as a term. Nor do I know anyone who does, though I can't say I've exactly polled people on the matter.
Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.
If political correctness is defined as not challenging the current conventions, any complaint about people getting offended is just that. As for the namethe whole convept of being " straight gay" seems.. Off. Are you sure that the wicks can't be people wonderin what it means?
Hm?
Er, yeah, we're sure. Wicks means that it's linked to in an article. As in, a trope page will Wiki Word Straight Gay, and that adds a wick. People don't generally link tropes in a work page/article if they're wondering what they mean. That doesn't make any sense. You hopefully know what it means when you put it on a work page.
edited 3rd Oct '10 7:05:49 AM by KrisMahai
“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
from dreams
@Daremo: Funny thing is, I'm gay too and not only do I find it offensive, so do other gay friends of mine and guys I've dated, all of whom think the term is stupid and shows a level of insecurity. The only ones who don't dislike the term are the ones who act like that themselves. And yes, most of them still have lingering issues about being gay.
There's also no shortage of people confused. Even the main page mentions the Unfortunate Implication that, by this article's logic, Camp Gay is the default for all gays. And yes I have a problem with that. It would be like calling Black and Nerdy "White Black".
edited 3rd Oct '10 7:44:43 AM by DesertDragon
...Because Jeb Bush is all in my house with disease.
I see the Awesomeness.
I think it would be better as Asian Black. But the point is that it's a decent name that is working for the trope.
Fight smart, not fair.
It's not a decent name, in fact it's two opposites put into one word. And even aside from the bad semantics, the implication is that conventional masculinity is unnatural for gay men and that we should either laugh at it (the farce version) or reward it as an attempt at being as "normal" as possible.
Not being a man myself, I can't speak for everyone, but since we clearly have examples of this being offensive, it has to go. I don't care if it's a preexisting term or how many other tropes has similar names; that's a separate problem. But this site isn't exclusive to straight people, and we have no right to steamroll everyone else like this.
edited 3rd Oct '10 11:50:00 AM by Mimimurlough
What would you say the opposite of Camp is, then?
with these tropes we have basically two axes: Straight vs Gay and Straight vs Camp. Straight Straight isn't a trope, it's the default assumption for a character and thus not used for a purpose - People Sit On Chairs. (Sad, but true in media). Straight Gay, Camp Straight, and Camp Gay make up the other three quadrants on our graph.
BTW, I'm a chick.
^ This. The Camp Straight trope proves that in this case, straight is used as the opposite of camp, and not as the opposite of gay.
It is not a contradiction any more than, for example, "The Left is right". (because here, right is used as the opposite of wrong, not as the opposite of left)
^Congrats. You made it more offensive.
Elaborate.
I haven't run into any abuses of the current trope title, and it got the point off rather fast.
Half-Life: Dual Nature, a crossover story of reasonably sized proportions.
Her Majesty
One could argue that "Straight Gay" refers to a gay man being able to pass as straight; make of that what you will. Personally, I often get it confused with Hard Gay as it is. Maybe, considering that the point is lack of stereotypical behavior, call it something like Dull Gay? Ordinary Gay? Wheres Waldo Gay? (since they just blend in with the other guys—-okay, i'll just shut up now.)
Hard Gay often applies to Camp Gay rather than Straight Gay, from what I've seen.
Half-Life: Dual Nature, a crossover story of reasonably sized proportions.
Crown Description:
Vote up for yes, down for no.
There's a reason the "Str8-acting" concept is Love It or Hate It among gays, and that's because many find it offensive to assume that a gay man who isn't a flaming queen is trying to be straight by default. Especially when it's not an act or anything at all, just his natural personality. Masculine Gay perhaps?
edited 3rd Oct '10 7:52:43 AM by DesertDragon
...Because Jeb Bush is all in my house with disease.