Follow TV Tropes

Following

Final Fantasy general

Go To

MiinU from in my mind Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Nov 17th 2020 at 1:38:33 PM

[up]VIII is essentially the black sheep of the FF franchise. There are those who liked it, but most would rather forget it ever existed, which is the reason it isn't likely to get the Remake treatment.

It'd be like asking why The Adventure of Link hasn't had a remake.

Edited by MiinU on Nov 17th 2020 at 1:40:14 AM

I wouldn't mind failure so much, if I didn't fail so much.
LunaStar Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Nov 17th 2020 at 4:22:27 PM

[up]You're exaggerating, saying that most people would rather forget it is just untrue. VIII still gets lots of love. It being flawed doesn't equal people hating it.

Reflextion from 2020 (Ultimate) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Nov 17th 2020 at 4:51:38 PM

If anything, the only games in the series that were well and truly bad were II and the original XIV. The former has already had a remake (albeit one that only made its flaws slightly more palatable, IMO), and the latter was almost completely scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up.

You say "pessimism", I say "pattern recognition".
Nov 17th 2020 at 5:53:26 PM

The fact the Emperor took over Heaven with his "good" side is whst made the II later releases so good to me.

Kicked zsafan and God to the curb to rule with an Iron fist!

MiinU from in my mind Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Nov 17th 2020 at 7:45:47 PM

[up][up][up]In most online discussion about 'least favorite FF' that I've seen, VIII, XIII, and X-2 are usually main ones. It's rare that I see anyone have anything positive to say about VIII, in particular.

I wouldn't mind failure so much, if I didn't fail so much.
M84 TIL Aromantics had a flag too from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
TIL Aromantics had a flag too
Nov 17th 2020 at 7:48:39 PM

The only good thing about II was its (for the time) rather revolutionary story. Even nowadays you'd be hard pressed to find a game that killed off most of the game world's inhabitants.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MiinU from in my mind Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Nov 17th 2020 at 8:21:22 PM

[up]Breath of the Wild comes to mind.

All told: King Rhoam, The Champions, the Hylian Knights, the citizenry of Hyrule Castle Town, and numerous villages across the Kingdom of Hyrule were all completely wiped out. Which is why Link finds almost nothing but ruins wherever he goes.

Edited by MiinU on Nov 17th 2020 at 8:23:28 AM

I wouldn't mind failure so much, if I didn't fail so much.
M84 TIL Aromantics had a flag too from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
TIL Aromantics had a flag too
Nov 17th 2020 at 8:21:58 PM

[up]That's all in the backstory though. FF II killed most of the game world during the events of the game itself.

Edited by M84 on Nov 18th 2020 at 12:22:32 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
MiinU from in my mind Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Nov 17th 2020 at 8:25:14 PM

[up]That's what Age of Calamity is for.

I wouldn't mind failure so much, if I didn't fail so much.
M84 TIL Aromantics had a flag too from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
TIL Aromantics had a flag too
Nov 17th 2020 at 8:29:54 PM

But the impact of that is reduced since you already know it's all going to shit since it's a prequel.

FF II otoh didn't give players any warning that it was going to have most of the people the party encounters (and a bunch of guest party members) being mercilessly slaughtered.

Disgusted, but not surprised
HamburgerTime The Merry Monarch of Darkness from Dark World, where we do sincerely have cookies Relationship Status: I know
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Nov 17th 2020 at 9:18:47 PM

Some common criticisms of FF games I've seen are:

  • II vanilla (controls)
  • VII (graphics and just Hype Backlash in general)
  • XII (late-game twist that the "villains" were technically right renders most of the story pointless)
  • XIII (overly linear)
  • XIII-2 (unavoidable Downer Ending)
  • XIV vanilla (...basically everything)

I know VIII is a base-breaker too, but I know nothing about that game in general.

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
M84 TIL Aromantics had a flag too from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
TIL Aromantics had a flag too
Nov 17th 2020 at 10:02:38 PM

VIII's got an overtly complex leveling and upgrade system for characters that can be off-putting at the start.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ from Somewhere...I think
☆♥☆
Nov 17th 2020 at 10:15:13 PM

II vanilla (controls)
Controls? I'm not sure what you mean.

I'd say the main problem II has is that it's stat growth system isn't well executed. It's awkward, incentivizes grinding in really tedious ways, and it makes offensive magic almost useless. There's also some other stuff that's annoying, like how dungeons always have these "fake" rooms that might have treasure but instead warp you to the center of the room and force you into a couple of random encounters trying to walk back out, or there's how the entire first half the game involves you repeatedly walking back and forth between the starting town and your next destination.

XII (late-game twist that the "villains" were technically right renders most of the story pointless)
I've never really seen that criticism before. It probably exists, but I've mostly seen people like that aspect. Mainly the criticism I seen for XII is that the battle system allows for letting the game basically play itself, and that the main characters' personalities and dynamics aren't as fleshed out as other games.

I know VIII is a base-breaker too, but I know nothing about that game in general.
The big problem with VIII is that its character building system is poorly executed, similar to II. Without explaining the whole thing, essentially the game ends up incentivizing turning off random encounters and not engaging with the core gameplay outside bosses, and instead grinding items and playing a mini-game to improve your party. And if you put any real time into it, you can get end-game ready stats early in the game and blow through any boss fights.

The plot also has it's share of problems. A lot of details of the game's world aren't fleshed out and can lead to major plot points getting dropped on you very suddenly unless you read data logs hidden in the game's tutorial section that most people don't know exist. The game isn't paced very well, it feels like it once you get to about the 2/3 in point the game starts to rush through its plot. And there's a lot of people who complain about the party members being shallow. I actually think the party members are likeable enough, but I do have to admit that they're very static. The story puts so much focus on Squall and Rinoa that the other four party members lack any real character arcs of their own and are mainly there to support Squall and Rinoa.

TheAirman from Congratulations! Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Nov 18th 2020 at 12:08:08 AM

I've never really seen that criticism before. It probably exists, but I've mostly seen people like that aspect. Mainly the criticism I seen for XII is that the battle system allows for letting the game basically play itself, and that the main characters' personalities and dynamics aren't as fleshed out as other games.

These are the criticisms I usually see for XII as well. The first of which always throws me for a loop, because that’s a criticism of XIII’s battle system more than XII’s, the player literally has to deliberately go way out of their way to set up the gambits in a manner that functions as a competent “auto” play. If you program a computer to carry out a specific function, you don’t get to legitimately complain about it doing what you specifically told it to do.

As for the idea about the “twist” making the villain “right” and the story pointless, uh, Vayne was a ruthless murderous imperialist dickbag hellbent on abusing Dalmasca for his own ends before the reveal about the Occuria also being ruthless murderous imperialist dickbags hellbent on abusing Dalmasca for their own ends, and was still one after that reveal as well. The only thing that changed is he went from using Dalamasca as a stepping stone for popularity, to using Dalmasca as a testing site for his WMD in a live battle.

PSN ID: FateSeraph Congratulations!
M84 TIL Aromantics had a flag too from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
TIL Aromantics had a flag too
Nov 18th 2020 at 12:20:22 AM

Worth remembering that Vayne isn't just about freeing people from the Occuria's influence. He's also about ruling Ivalice as the next Dynast-King.

The only villain who had the best intentions was Venat, who simply wanted the Occuria to stop messing around with mortals. Notably, she's the only one who actually gets what she wanted in the end.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Nothing is absolute. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Nothing is absolute.
Nov 18th 2020 at 12:39:27 AM

There is also an implication that Vayne wanted to pass everything to Larsa.

M84 TIL Aromantics had a flag too from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
TIL Aromantics had a flag too
Nov 18th 2020 at 12:41:07 AM

It's more like he wanted to shelter Larsa from the dirty power plays. Whatever else can be said about Vayne, he really wanted to protect his little brother.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TheAirman from Congratulations! Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Nov 18th 2020 at 2:32:33 AM

Right up until he tries to murder him. Like he did the rest of their family.

PSN ID: FateSeraph Congratulations!
M84 TIL Aromantics had a flag too from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
TIL Aromantics had a flag too
Nov 18th 2020 at 2:33:23 AM

Nah, even after that he wanted Gabranth to protect his brother in phase 2 of his boss fight after he KO'ed Larsa.

Also worth noting that Larsa drew his sword first, though it was definitely justified. Even then, Larsa's dismayed when it seems like Vayne was actually going to die after the first phase of the boss fight and rushed to Vayne's side (which led to him being KO'ed as mentioned above).

Edited by M84 on Nov 18th 2020 at 6:35:19 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
TheAirman from Congratulations! Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Nov 18th 2020 at 2:42:16 AM

Oh. Right. Misremembered that bit.

PSN ID: FateSeraph Congratulations!
M84 TIL Aromantics had a flag too from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
TIL Aromantics had a flag too
Nov 18th 2020 at 3:13:02 AM

The one Vayne really wanted to kill by that point was Gabranth. He notably suffers a Villainous Breakdown and loses the even temperament he had throughout the game and screams "BURN IN HELL GABRANTH!"

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ultimatum Disasturbator from an Amiga Forest somewhere Relationship Status: I know
Disasturbator
Nov 18th 2020 at 5:06:19 AM

I've found my least favourite is actually Crystal Chronicles,the multiplayer gimmick,the absence of a proper levelling system,no summons..

I liked the races though and music though,it's just everthing else feels so uninspired

Chat with me on this thing!Also, I make art, look!
FrozenWolf2 The Man, The Myth, The Legend from ?????
The Man, The Myth, The Legend
Nov 18th 2020 at 5:59:56 AM

[1]

since VIII tends to be at the top of several favorites list or ranks high in favorites. I'd say it more who you choose to hang out with.

____

For the actually Black Sheep of the Franchise at least according to the Western half of the Fanbase

It be XI to the point where people would actively refuse to acknowledge its existence and my personal favorite give its OG Dissidia slot to another character...

like This happened alot

I-X XII Then bonus spinoff 'Usually Ramza' or another I-X character 'usually Tifa or Black Mage'

however after the general reception of Dissidia and the general interest in XI increased due to PC options

XI stopped being disregarded... We just now complain we're represented by Shantotto and the Harem brigade cause XI kept making cute girls your companion characters for story arcs.

The current black sheep is Og XIV NO contest since its the FF that nearly Killed it.

You can bitch about the other mainline games all you want... none of them nearly killed the franchise like XIV did

Like when your launch game is more barebones than launch XI.

You have a problem

"He's devious and amoral and unreliable and irresponsible and… and definitely not to be trusted."
artfulscruff hopelessly optimistic from oop north
hopelessly optimistic
Nov 18th 2020 at 8:17:59 AM

the player literally has to deliberately go way out of their way to set up the gambits in a manner that functions as a competent “auto” play. If you program a computer to carry out a specific function, you don’t get to legitimately complain about it doing what you specifically told it to do.
Just quoting because I agree hard, though I still see why it's unappealing to some people. I personally love anything that lets me set up an engine then watch it run, like a little wind-up toy.

instagram / tumblr
TropayXion The i. one. from HEART Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
The i. one.
Nov 18th 2020 at 8:26:33 AM

Gambits were honestly kind of frustrating to get working right. Lots of really simple things you simply couldn't automate properly, at least none I could see - I want my character to attempt to steal until they succeed or the enemy isn't holding anything, but it's either "only steal" or nothing.

Fanfic riff blog - Updated 13/05/20; Pokemon

Total posts: 66,514
Top

How well does it match the trope?

Example of:

/

Media sources:

/

Report