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firewriter Bulla to Earthlings, Echalote to Saiyans.
Bulla to Earthlings, Echalote to Saiyans.
Sep 20th 2019 at 7:48:11 PM

I agree. Out of the Final Fantasy party members, I think FF 7 had the best balance and number. I felt that you got to know the characters, even the optional ones.

Shonen Is Not Just For Boys, Even If Literally Means "Boy".
Sep 20th 2019 at 9:55:18 PM

Honestly the best balance was XIII. They go to great lengths to have you get to know all the characters.

VII drops off at least 1 party member with Cait Sith.

Edited by Memers on Sep 20th 2019 at 9:57:15 AM

firewriter Bulla to Earthlings, Echalote to Saiyans.
Bulla to Earthlings, Echalote to Saiyans.
Sep 20th 2019 at 9:59:56 PM

[up]

I didn't really feel anything for them.

Shonen Is Not Just For Boys, Even If Literally Means "Boy".
Sep 20th 2019 at 10:33:47 PM

VII drops off at least 1 party member with Cait Sith.

It surprised me but Cait Sith actually had a large amount of character focus all the way to the end.

The one who gets the worst deal in the second half (ignoring Yuffie and Vincent) is probably Red 13. He has some stuff but not as much as the other characters.

Sep 21st 2019 at 12:01:56 AM

And he still has more than most second-stringers from Final Fantasy 8 or Final Fantasy 9. It's true that FF 13 has the best balance along with FF 10, but I find every single character to be between forgettable and hateable, so it's not a positive example of balance for me. But yeah, it's honestly pretty good at balancing the spotlight.

Hobgoblin Cool Blue Magic from Jylland Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Cool Blue Magic
Sep 21st 2019 at 12:33:34 AM

On the topic of Vincent, it's kind of amazing he wound up so popular considering his role in the story is "Guy who orbited around a lady who broke his heart, willfully ran into the arms of the evilest man on the planet, and gave birth to the second evilest man on the planet."

That's not even getting into him sleeping in a coffin as some nonsensical attempt at atonement, which Yuffie even makes fun of him for.

Let's Play the entire MegaMan Battle Network series!
M84 Such heroic nonsense from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Such heroic nonsense
Sep 21st 2019 at 12:35:58 AM

He's not even particularly good gameplay-wise.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Zeromaeus Mighty No. 51345 from Neo Arcadia
Mighty No. 51345
Sep 21st 2019 at 2:00:15 AM

But that character design, though. And he's mysterious and aloof. And you had to jump through hoops to even unlock him.

What can I say? I know I thought he was cool.

Mega Man fanatic extraordinaire
slimcoder Insane Religious Murderbot
Insane Religious Murderbot
Sep 21st 2019 at 2:01:58 AM

The Remake will certainly give him a boost.

Nobody is innocent, there are merely varying levels of guilt. Oh and Primus hates you.
RedHunter543 Dark-Type Specialist. Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Dark-Type Specialist.
Sep 21st 2019 at 2:03:37 AM

Plus he's broody and angsty, Square tends to go for those characters in those years.

Sep 21st 2019 at 9:50:15 AM

A vampire who transforms into a werewolf is extremely cool.

(yeah he is kind of a fuckboy though)

Edited by Moth13 on Sep 21st 2019 at 12:51:00 PM

ShirowShirow Play Langrisser from Land of maple syrup Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Play Langrisser
Sep 21st 2019 at 7:04:58 PM

"LUCRECIA!"

-broods-

"HOJO!"

-broods-

"They made my Implied Love Interest in my own spinoff a woman trapped in a twelve year old's body when there was a perfectly good Hot Scientist with a robot arm strutting about."

-broods-

Bleye knows Sabers.
ShirowShirow Play Langrisser from Land of maple syrup Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Play Langrisser
Sep 21st 2019 at 8:17:09 PM

Yes.

I like Vincent. Maybe because I never unlocked him though. Extra layer of mystery.

Bleye knows Sabers.
Draghinazzo My love, has dressed me like a clown Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
My love, has dressed me like a clown
Sep 21st 2019 at 8:27:55 PM

In-game Vincent is a cool little secret but nothing that merited giving him his own game, especially when the game ended up being as terrible as it did.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine. ...not really though.
RodimusMinor Not actually a minor
Not actually a minor
Sep 21st 2019 at 8:35:31 PM

Dirge of Cerberus is kind of a little microcosm of everything wrong with the Compilation; meaning, depth and weight sacrificed in the name of style.

That it focused on Vincent Valentine, a character whose whole appeal rested on them being really cool, is kind of fitting.

Nikkolas from Texas Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Sep 21st 2019 at 9:03:16 PM

Vincent has like a ton of plot relevance. More than fucking Cid or Red XIII.

Vincent is part of realizing that Hojo is the real main villain of FFVII as well as that Sephiroth was wildly misinformed about everything. You get some very vital and interesting info by recruiting him.

Edited by Nikkolas on Sep 21st 2019 at 9:06:37 AM

Sep 21st 2019 at 9:05:44 PM

Being plot relevant doesn't make someone fleshed out or interesting.

ShirowShirow Play Langrisser from Land of maple syrup Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Play Langrisser
Sep 21st 2019 at 9:10:02 PM

... I really protest a character being labeled plot relevant when you can comfortably play through the entire game without ever knowing they exist.

Bleye knows Sabers.
slimcoder Insane Religious Murderbot
Insane Religious Murderbot
Sep 21st 2019 at 9:11:09 PM

Yeah how is an optional character important?

Nobody is innocent, there are merely varying levels of guilt. Oh and Primus hates you.
RodimusMinor Not actually a minor
Not actually a minor
Sep 21st 2019 at 9:12:19 PM

Vincent's existence and sidequest does serve to humanize Sephiroth. Not in the "make him more sympathetic" way but to pierce a hole into his perceptions of godhood by revealing he is, in fact, a normal human.

ShirowShirow Play Langrisser from Land of maple syrup Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Play Langrisser
Sep 21st 2019 at 9:14:05 PM

Not saying he doesn't serve a purpose but like...

Maybe "Lore relevant" would be a better term? I dunno.

Bleye knows Sabers.
RodimusMinor Not actually a minor
Not actually a minor
Sep 21st 2019 at 9:16:45 PM

That works. His story sheds some light on the lore but Vincent himself is basically a walking piece of concept art.

Nikkolas from Texas Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Sep 21st 2019 at 9:17:57 PM

Sure but so what? That just leaves it to the realm of opinion. I like Vincent, you don't, the discussion is over. I was pointing out Vincent contributes to the story in several meaningful ways which is indisputable.

It's like earlier up the page FFXIII was praised for its focus (haha) on the cast but immediately thereafter somebody said "sure but all the characters suck."

I liked XIII's cast but I'd criticize the storytelling for how it neglects literally everyone else in the world. It gives every playable character an arc but at the expense of ev ery NPC and villain being underdeveloped.

EDIT

Vincent's character arc is the only way you know anything about who Sephiroth really is or where he came from. That's pretty fucking important. It shows you how he was used and mistreated by Hojo.

Edited by Nikkolas on Sep 21st 2019 at 9:20:33 AM

RodimusMinor Not actually a minor
Not actually a minor
Sep 21st 2019 at 9:21:50 PM

My original point was more that Dirge of Cerberus was basically fanfiction about how Vincent was cool and lacked the powerful themes of FFVII that made it so good in the first place. Even the pieces of Vincent's story and his relevance to Sephiroth were lacking in favor of a story about underground ninjas.

Like how Advent Children decided Cloud was a mopey twink with a big sword who angsted all cool-like instead of a dope who had to overcome impossible odds just to function as a human being.

(Actually what was that story set post-game where Cloud becomes a delivery boy? I love that idea)


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