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lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#69751: Jan 24th 2025 at 12:22:15 PM

It's also worth noting that according to the Bloomberg article that this is from, one of EA's sports games also dramatically underperformed. Which is concerning for EA's (and in turn Bioware's) future because massive profits from sports games have historically been what has allowed EA to weather all their questionable business decisions.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#69752: Jan 24th 2025 at 5:32:51 PM

Games should not be written off just because their parent company believes each game should sell like gangbusters.

While this is broadly a very real and serious problem I would caution against assuming that it applies here. Just because publishers usually have overinflated expectations doesn't mean that games cannot genuinely be financial flubs.

AAA development is massively expensive in the best of times and Veilguard took ten years to make. Couple that with its divisive reception and I fully believe that it was a genuine failure.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#69753: Jan 24th 2025 at 5:58:44 PM

It also had some really bad ideas they sought to implement only to scrap them in the end, like making it a Live Service game.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jan 24th 2025 at 5:59:00 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#69754: Jan 25th 2025 at 7:17:47 AM

[up]Exactly, it went through so many massive revisions and restructurings a strong case can be made that Veilguard was never a single game but arguably the newest in a line of 1-2 cancelled games.

I don't particularly like Veilguard but I have to hand it to Corinne Busche, she managed to take a sunken ship and completely revitalize it. Good for her.

It's a shame her efforts were wasted on something as mediocre as Veilguard.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#69755: Jan 25th 2025 at 10:20:15 AM

At the least Veilguard did resolve most ongoing plotlines.

So if EA inevitably pulls an EA then at least Veilguard makes for a decent series finale

#IceBearForPresident
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#69756: Jan 27th 2025 at 2:51:22 AM

Yeah especially with the Blight being gone for good.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#69757: Jan 27th 2025 at 3:47:35 AM

It still exists, but at least the Archdemons are all gone. And with the Veil reinforced, that means no one is deliberately trying to release it anymore.

Disgusted, but not surprised
king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#69758: Jan 27th 2025 at 3:50:11 AM

It also helps that the only major sequel hook (the epilogue with the Executors) is easy to miss and therefore easy to ignore.

Edited by king15 on Jan 27th 2025 at 11:50:41 AM

Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#69759: Jan 27th 2025 at 8:35:59 PM

So yeah it'll suck but at least Dragon Age got to more or less wrap up their plot neatly in their "final" game, at least compared to what happened with Dead Space.

#IceBearForPresident
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#69760: Jan 27th 2025 at 8:37:39 PM

Funnily enough, Dead Space has a perfectly valid ending.

It's just one for Cosmic Horror not video games.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#69761: Jan 27th 2025 at 8:48:05 PM

I've come to appreciate it, largely in thanks to having over a decade to accept it. But hey, the vanilla game had an ambiguous ending, while the dlc had an ending that may or may not have been hastily thrown together in response to the series being shitcanned.

If it was planned all along then Visceral has some major brass ones. But if it was cobbled together as a necessity then, well, it's a least a nice bit of serendipity?

#IceBearForPresident
Cid El Cid Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Hiding
El Cid
#69762: Jan 28th 2025 at 7:26:43 AM

[up][up]Yeah, the DLC's ending was a perfect way to end the series considering the franchise was dead and everyone knew it. It's nice to get a downer ending once in a while.

And like Dead Space, maybe in 10 or 15 years EA will revive Dragon Age with a fantastic remake of Origins, only to kill the franchise again when it fails to sell 10 million copies in the first 20 minutes.

Edited by Cid on Jan 28th 2025 at 9:27:06 AM

somerandomdude from Dark side of the moon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
#69763: Jan 30th 2025 at 5:39:20 PM

Tons of BioWare writers, including Veilguard lead writer Trick Weekes, have been laid off as BioWare moves to exclusively focus on Mass Effect V

Seems to be the nail in the coffin for the franchise. I'll be blunt, I didn't appreciate Weekes' direction for the story or how they wrote their parts of it, but with them and their partner gone, that's basically the last of BioWare's staff with any serious experience writing Dragon Age. With no DLC planned, Veilguard's lukewarm reception and poor sales, and all of their talent shifted towards ME5, there doesn't seem to be a path forward for Thedas.

ok boomer
SilentColossus (Don’t ask)
#69764: Jan 30th 2025 at 7:38:54 PM

Here's hoping good luck to their future endeavors and that they find a company that treats them better.

Edited by SilentColossus on Jan 30th 2025 at 10:54:35 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#69765: Jan 30th 2025 at 8:46:43 PM

I guess it is for the best they wrapped up the main story threads so far.

The writers may have realized this would happen due to the game’s long and troubled production and didn’t want to leave everything unresolved.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Kiefen MINE! from Germany Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
MINE!
#69766: Jan 31st 2025 at 1:22:26 AM

Origins just got an update on Steam...which just removed two files from the game:

  • docs/EA Help/en-us/Electronic_Arts_Technical_Support.glo
  • bin_ship/DA Updater Svc.Service.exe (25.23 Ki B)

Oh wow the franchise really is dead.

KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#69767: Jan 31st 2025 at 1:41:41 AM

RIP Dragon Age

November 2, 2009 - January 31, 2025

Still gonna buy the game eventually but at least now w/ the knowledge that it's going to be the Grand Finale. Still gonna look fondly at the memories of keeping and maintaining the save files and specific decisions from Origins up until Trespasser.

Edited by KRider on Jan 31st 2025 at 2:46:37 AM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#69768: Jan 31st 2025 at 4:08:20 AM

I guess we might still get Comics and Novels.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Avenger09 Since: May, 2014
#69769: Feb 2nd 2025 at 8:05:39 AM

Was reading the Heinousness Retcon page and I think the Veilguard entry for Tevinter fails account for the fact that the primary Tevinter location we visit is Dock Town, a rundown and overlooked part of the city.

I've tried to rewrite it but I'm unsure if it reads well, and would like to get some feedback before committing to the edit.

  • Tevinter in previous games is presented as heavily xenophobic towards Elves (whom they regularly enslaved) and Qunari (whom they've been at war with for centuries), to the point where members of either races should feel unsafe traveling the streets of the capital. Slavery is also widespread and so omnipresent that in Dragon Age: Inquisition, Dorian, who is otherwise very critical about his own country and an outspoken reformist, struggles to see Slavery as a moral evil (he does get there eventually). Similarly, Blood magic is widespread, even if there's a taboo about discussing it publicly. Tevinter also holds great resentment and posturing towards Southern Thedas, seeing them as primitive and backwards. In Dragon Age: The Veilguard, the only area of Minrathous players explore is Dock Town, a rundown distinct which has Elven and Qunari residents aplenty, along with an active resistance group, the Shadow Dragons, based there fighting against both Slavery and the corrupt system of mage domnion - the only on-screen slave owners and traders are all Venatori, one of the enemy factions.

Edited by Avenger09 on Feb 2nd 2025 at 4:08:11 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#69770: Feb 2nd 2025 at 10:24:17 AM

I'd say that's a legit example. Tevinter was heavily whitewashed in this game.

Everything evil about the Empire is just the Venatori.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#69771: Feb 2nd 2025 at 10:28:20 AM

I'd say its also valid to point out the game being set in Docktown purposefully allows it to downplay/not show the worst parts of Tevinter.

(Disclosure that I wrote the original entry for this passage, but IIRC I also mentioned in my original write up that the game picked being set in Docktown because it allowed a more favorable presentation of tevinter since Docktown would naturally have less slave owners due to the locals being poor. Im guessing someone since removed that part).

Edited by Ghilz on Feb 2nd 2025 at 1:30:06 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#69772: Feb 2nd 2025 at 10:42:53 AM

[up][up],[up]Yeah, I agree with both of you. The game justifies it but that doesn't make it less of a whitewashing. It's just one that the writers chose to justify.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 2nd 2025 at 11:09:05 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Avenger09 Since: May, 2014
#69773: Feb 2nd 2025 at 11:45:49 AM

I don't think it counts as a whitewash as the game makes it clear its still prevalent, it just makes the distinction that its not as common in the specific area we're in - building upon the established social hierarchy in Tevinter that Dorian told us of.

Its just like how we don't see much anti-Elf sentiment beyond some areas of Inquisition.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#69774: Feb 2nd 2025 at 12:51:57 PM

I'd argue the opposite. You can join the Shadow Dragons, and their fight against slavery is only ever framed as a fight against the Venatori. There's no other slavers or slave owners that ever come up. A lot of what are supposed to general issues in Tevinter are framed specifically only as things the Venatori do. And even despite being ostensibly an abolitionist movement, the Shadow Dragon's anti slave stuff plays second fiddle to just their opposing the Venatori in general. You spend more time hunting down red lyrium smuggling, or saving dissenters whom the Venatori are trying to purge, than freeing slaves.

Slavery is framed as existing, but it's a thing gestures off screen over there. Only people who do slavery is the Venatori and they are pure evil.

To put this the another way, you can make the "docktown" argument for any other criticism about elements being suddenly way more chill when in previous games they were big hot topic issues. "Why is there so little elf racism" "Well you see, the Dalish you interact with are not even a clan, but a multispecies faction of archeologist and magic relic stabilizers. It doesn't mean Elven racism doesn't exist. It's just happening somewhere else".

"Why are the crows so nice" "Well you interact mostly with the Crows of Treviso. Viago De Riva and Teia are chill. It might be different in antiva city or with the houses like house Arainai"

It's Docktown doesn't explain why the residents of Tevinter are suddenly chill with elves and Qunaris in their midst. Being poor doesn't mean your country's culture doesn't affect you or make you more tolerant. gestures to Real Life

Edited by Ghilz on Feb 2nd 2025 at 3:54:44 PM

Avenger09 Since: May, 2014
#69775: Feb 2nd 2025 at 1:05:23 PM

The Venatori obviously take precedent because they're actively involved in the current crisis. We still overhear the Viper talking with his shadows about combating the Magisters, both those them and the ones just talking advantage of the chaos to uphold the status quo and amass more power and corruption among their Templar lackies.

We're fighting one battle among hundreds that we don't get to see the full scope of because the Veilguard isn't a huge organization like the Inquisition was.

Its like saying the Orlais was toned down because when we go there, we don't see them actively suppressing people as Loghain described them.

And for that matter we do see people react to the players race, its just doesn't actively impede the gameplay, like we can only buy from certain shops because of racism, because that would restrict the player too much and be frustrating.

Edited by Avenger09 on Feb 2nd 2025 at 9:11:55 AM


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