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TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#61001: Jul 3rd 2018 at 5:56:24 PM

...I thought you were announcing a new Dragon Age game for a second...

I'd be happy if we got more Dragon Age Origins. It's my favorite game ever. But I don't think we're getting more.

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#61002: Jul 3rd 2018 at 8:05:32 PM

We know Patrick Weeks has taken over, but we also do know that basically EVERYONE at Bioware has been put on helping Anthem get released. DA 4 is presumably in production, but Anthem is taking priority.

JerekLaz Since: Jun, 2014
#61003: Jul 4th 2018 at 1:54:27 AM

And the sad likelihood is that should Anthem not do so well, they will throw the baby out with the bathwater. And then DA will be "remastered" in 5 years time, with another studio taking the helm and gushing about the "Iconic franchise", paying tribute to Bioware, but also about how they're "excited to take the gritty fantasy in a bold new direction"...

Which is how we'll get Dragon Age: Blight Royale. Darkspawn skin only $4.99

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#61004: Jul 4th 2018 at 3:34:27 AM

Well, it also depends on how far production is. It could just mean that DA 4 will be a significantly scaled down game. Which... also isn't a plesant thought after Inquisition was kind of massive and... that was a point that worked in its favor.

If anything, the fact that the series has been consistently profitable could help it in the longer run? DA 2 was a disappointment but it sold the same as Origins and Inquisition was nothing short of an absolute success.

JerekLaz Since: Jun, 2014
#61005: Jul 4th 2018 at 5:21:47 AM

I hope so. Thought EA aren't quite rational with profit expectations / manageable financial targets. They overestimate the reception (Amalur) or can't comprehend reactions (Battlefront, Andromeda)

I think a good, well structured open world (or maps) could work in its favour - less empty space / transition, more interactive locations would be a better fit. Hopefully it won't end up being smashed together and pushed out of the door. I think DA is the franchise they could easily make bank on, but that's just my view.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#61006: Jul 4th 2018 at 6:17:45 AM

Inquisition and Andromeda were miles long and inches deep.

ME 2 shows how getting more focused can be much much better.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
JerekLaz Since: Jun, 2014
#61007: Jul 4th 2018 at 6:23:45 AM

[up]Yes. When I first played ME 2 I was grumpy at the loss of planetary exploration (Which helped set the scene of unexplored worlds) whilst ME 2 felt too prescribed.

HOWEVER, on several reruns through I really appreciated that focus, as it allowed to put more depth into each location. I think explorable environments are doable, but miles of void that just serve as filler to travel through are harder to justify.

An open area, one or two, to explore but with interesting, interlinked locales, I like.

In Andromeda, the one map I really found interesting was the lunar one - where the gravity was low and it really felt like you were on a frontier. The other maps felt like you were cycling between scripted scenes and hid it badly. Nothing really changed.

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#61008: Jul 4th 2018 at 1:36:01 PM

I also noticed that linear levels allow the devs to get more creative. The Illium warehouses and tower levels were dramataically large but that size and scale just can't be achieved on an open world. Because you'd have to build and design out how that would work on a more grounded and technical level and that costs resources.

Its ok to have an open world. Its ok to have a linear level. Its ok to also do both.

Inquisition may have not quite gotten the open world format, but it did the narrative fantastically in a lot of places that it ended up forgivable. I don't mind the lack of story in the Emerald Planes (why is everything burning and destroyed) or Emerald Graves (vague fort general plot?) because the environments were so gorgous that I loved any excuse to just wander around and take it all in.

Though, as I think is kind of obvious from Inquisition, they need to adopt a more Assassin's Creed esque playstyle if they want to put focus on exploration and platforming. Inquisition had platformer levels in places without platformer mechanics.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#61009: Jul 4th 2018 at 3:10:02 PM

Andromeda did the linear level thing a few times, such as in loyalty missions. They were definitely the best parts of the game, and the open world was a bit empty. Not as bad as Inquisition (and helped by the fact that you had a vehicle), but still empty.

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#61010: Jul 4th 2018 at 3:15:17 PM

I don't know. Inquisition had a bunch of puzzles which I liked. Like the constellations. Helped flesh out the world.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#61011: Jul 4th 2018 at 3:16:49 PM

I'd say that the emptiness of Andromeda was a lot more noticeable because you had a vehicle and jump jets — the worlds went on that much longer, yet there were fewer of them with less difference between them. There's a lot less detail on the maps, and fewer sidequests, while Inquisition is actually fairly dense with notes/lore, unmarked quests, puzzles, different enemy types, and vistas and varied terrain. Inquisition is still too damn big and empty, but that just made Andromeda that much worse for me. It's like four out of six maps of the Hissing Wastes.

Edited by Unsung on Jul 4th 2018 at 4:20:52 AM

lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#61012: Jul 4th 2018 at 3:48:01 PM

I actually think that Andromeda's open world was heavily populated, especially compared to practical wastelands like FFXV and most of Bethesda's content.

Edited by lrrose on Jul 4th 2018 at 6:47:58 AM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#61013: Jul 4th 2018 at 4:02:32 PM

Apples to oranges, really. With FF the focus is on the visuals, and there's no comparison between XV and Andromeda, so if most of the former's NP Cs are just standard "Welcome to Corneria!" types, it can get away with that. And even if the characters in a Bethesda game have shorter, weaker dialogue trees than in a Bioware game, it makes up for it with reactivity, interconnected environments, and density of content. Bioware usually focuses on the writing, even of relatively minor NP Cs, and in that regard I think Inquisition holds up. Andromeda? Not so much.

We're talking about different kinds of density, I think: visual, mechanical, and story-based.

Edited by Unsung on Jul 4th 2018 at 5:08:52 AM

pointless233 Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#61014: Jul 16th 2018 at 9:37:27 AM

I've been playing Dragon Age: Inquisition for the past few days and so far I think it's an alright game. However, I think that there are too many side quests and I also don't like how magic(I'm playing as a female Dalish elf mage) feels kind of weak compared to the first two games. Besides, I dolike the management parts of the game. Spreading the word about the Inqusition, helping people out and other stuff.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#61015: Jul 16th 2018 at 9:47:20 AM

Apparently the game was designed such that you aren't supposed to do all the side quests, just enough to get you to the next questing zone. But obviously Bioware has never spoken to someone who actually plays video games before.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#61016: Jul 16th 2018 at 9:51:41 AM

#LeaveTheHinterlands

For part of its development, the game was supposed to be an MMO. Thankfully that didn't happen, but by then a lot of the damage was already done, huge dull maps, floaty controls, and weak-feeling spells and all.

InkDagger Since: Jul, 2014
#61017: Jul 16th 2018 at 4:18:45 PM

The MMO concept was dropped in, well, the conceptual stage. There's no possible way that the map designs were left in because of the MMO idea. Mostly because, as they are, they're really tiny for an MMO.

I'd more clearly blame the open world design problems more on 'Bioware wants to do an Open World but doesn't quite know how to do that' than anything. Dragon Age 2 has the exact same problems of Inquisition (Open Areas with not much to do) but on a far smaller scale.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#61018: Jul 16th 2018 at 7:13:05 PM

Origins had those problems, but DA 2's maps were fairly dense, if only because there were so few of them. And I will give Bioware credit on DA 2 and Inquisition for at least starting to incorporate vistas and landmarks. I wouldn't say KOTOR or Jade Empire's strengths are their 3D level design, either.

The earmarks of an MMO game are still all over the game. An open-world game needs at least one proper hub city and can make do with fewer quests as long as they're meaningful, but an MMO needs tons of little nothing quests, lots of walking time, and ways of making combat last longer. Inq might not have been an MMO after a certain point in development, but at whatever point that was, they only did so much to roll back those decisions.

SilentColossus (Old as dirt)
#61019: Jul 16th 2018 at 7:41:34 PM

It is likely open world for the same reason a lot of recent titles are open world: everyone else is doing it and studios think it can make them a lot of money.

And bad quests, and a lack of a hub city, is more likely caused by questionable game design then anything else.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#61020: Jul 18th 2018 at 4:05:18 AM

Gaider: "A note to start: I don’t work for Bio Ware any longer, and while I created and wrote Dorian for “Dragon Age: Inquisition”, this is purely fanfiction — a little story that planted itself in my head after a recent conversation over drinks, one which wouldn’t go away until I wrote it. Revisiting Dorian was both easier than I feared but harder than I’d imagined, so take this for what it’s worth…just a bit of time spent having fun with an old friend."

https://medium.com/@davidgaider/the-final-conversation-d6258fa6cbdb

HottoKenai Since: Aug, 2016
#61021: Jul 18th 2018 at 4:29:56 AM

[up] This reminds me: I vaguely remembered someone mentioned that according to one of the novels, Blood Magic is actually pain magic, meaning the blood doesn't matter as much as the act of sacrifice. Could this still be considered canon?

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#61022: Jul 18th 2018 at 2:33:19 PM

[up][up] Good for him.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#61023: Jul 24th 2018 at 2:56:39 AM

So I was talking about why I don't like The Chantry and somebody asked "but don't you like the Qun?" I don't know why this always happens but it does.

Anyway, I listed the racism against elves as a black mark against The Chantry. I also thought about adding "and this discrimination made a lot of elves flock to the Qun. You don't see the reverse happening, do you?"

I'm not wrong, am I? We have not seen a Tal-Vashoth who has joined The Chantry? I kinda would be interested in that for DA 4.

Although the many discussions of Qunari I've seen made interesting points about how even the Qunari rebels still fall into their "role." Tal-Vashoth act like Tal-Vashoth should. I'm not sure if this is simply a narrative lapse or if it's supposed to be emblematic of how complete qunari......er, education is.

Just something different, ya know? What do you all think?

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#61024: Jul 24th 2018 at 8:22:22 AM

Pretty sure it's a sign of how complete qunari education is. Warriors have absolutely no education outside of being warriors and are taught that even attempting something outside their specialization will just lead to failure, so if they leave the qun they have no options but to become bandits.

It's also implied that the leadership is allowing the Tal-Vashoth to exist partly because they make for such a great boogeyman. "See? This is what happens if you leave the qun!" Bull is terrified of going insane and murdering everyone around him for no reason because he's been taught that his species is uncontrollably violent without the stabilizing influence of the qun.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#61025: Jul 24th 2018 at 9:30:23 AM

I mentioned this before, but I wish Maraas from DA 2 was recruitable, in part because the time skips in that game could've given us a lot of insight into what it's like to choose to break with the Qun. We never really see anyone else do that — Sten goes on an immediate rampage the moment he thinks he's lost his sword, Bull is terrified he'll go crazy if he formally leaves the Qun even though he's already been living outside of its teachings for years. Neither is a case of someone who consciously wants out, and meanwhile Bull hasn't been a typical Qunari in years.

I wouldn't mind seeing someone at the end of that trip, but it would've been cool to follow a cast member through that process of deciding, maybe with personal quests where you can nudge them toward or away from finding new faith and purpose in the Chantry. And just imagine the look on Petrice's face. And the Arishok's, too, except not really because it's always the same.

This is a case where something like Spacer Shepard's meet-your-parents in ME could've told us a lot if we'd gotten the same thing with the Vashoth Inquisitor's parents. Presumably they hadn't gone all the way bandit, either. It was a shame to relegate all that stuff to the war table.

Edited by Unsung on Jul 24th 2018 at 11:17:00 AM


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