Note that the paragraph mentioning Complete Monster appears to have been added by the same person, for similar reasons, as the paragraphs discussed in this thread
; that is, it's not clear it belongs there at all (despite how much it's been iteratively edited since being added).
Slightly off-topic question:
OK, Sincerity Mode on. Please don't take the following as being confrontational.
... why does it matter so much if a character gets the Complete Monster badge or no? A character can be a perfectly well-written, memorable, even genre-revolutionising villain without being rotten to the core.
Edited by DoktorvonEurotrash on Nov 23rd 2024 at 5:45:54 AM
Is the question here about whether showing Pragmatic Villainy can be seen as a redeeming feature? (The title question makes it seem like PV is something the hero could use when fighting a CM.) If so, I would say no, as long as the pragmatism was entirely about self-preservation. And to qualify as a CM, the villain would need to have some moment in which this sort of restraint is lifted and the audience can see how far they are willing to go.
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.![]()
I mean when PV gets to the point that the villain simply doesn't engage in heinousness, even when there's no need for pragmatism, and thus pass up the required moments of heinousness to pass the bar in a work. So the practice of Pragmatic Villainy actually cutting into the heinousness cred and turning from an excuse from a moment's heinousness to a roadblock; note how I said absolutely nothing about "redeeming qualities" (and the wordplay, redeeming qualities turns a Complete Monster into a mere monster, in this case Pragmatic Villainy simply turns them into a "Complete" but without the monster lol).
Not really as a redeeming quality so much as "missing out on heinousness", so "too much Pragmatic Villainy, failed to commit real monstrosity."
Edited by manhandled on Nov 24th 2024 at 2:23:10 AM

Cleanup threads are closed so trope talk it is. Question is about Pragmatic Villainy, the trope page mentions its relationship to CM and how it can be used to hand-wave away potential Pet the Dog moments but at the same time runs the risk of a potential CM missing an opportunity for heinousness and losing the Monster part and merely being Complete; what are some villains, CM or not, have had Pragmatic Villainy working against their claim to the title. Maybe if Pragmatic Villainy leads to "wait why am I doing all this evil, I don't have to do all that to get what I want" or even the more petty "actually, being a Complete Monster sucks, I quit!"?
Edited by manhandled on Nov 22nd 2024 at 4:22:05 AM