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RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#801: May 5th 2025 at 10:31:48 AM

What were his crimes again in Captain Falcon?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Hawkeye86 Spirit of Battle from Classified (Searching for Spock) Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Spirit of Battle
#802: May 5th 2025 at 10:36:33 AM

Walker kills one of the Flagsmashers in cold blood in public.

You and I remember Budapest very differently
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#803: May 5th 2025 at 10:36:35 AM

Killing a criminal who surrendered. In full view of the public.

[nja]'d

Edited by KRider on May 6th 2025 at 1:36:51 AM

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#804: May 5th 2025 at 10:36:52 AM

Murdered someone in public for killing his friend.

Being maybe sort of a dick to Bucky and Sam.

To be honest I think the Dora Milajae were more culpable in that story than Walker was.

KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#805: May 5th 2025 at 10:39:12 AM

His murder of the Flag Smasher was being compared to George Floyd's murder by a racist cop.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
AlexHopeLife Since: Feb, 2025
#806: May 5th 2025 at 10:39:51 AM

[up]*2. The Dora Millaje abused their power, and John was supposedly the "bad guy" in the situation.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#807: May 5th 2025 at 10:41:12 AM

It was also a reference to how brutally protesters were treated during the Vietnam War.

AlexHopeLife Since: Feb, 2025
#808: May 5th 2025 at 10:45:03 AM

Walker was meant to represent certain negative aspects of America and show what would have happened if the Colonel had chosen the guy he wanted in the beginning, although they made the mistake of making him more sympathetic than intended.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#809: May 5th 2025 at 10:45:32 AM

What John did, especially in public and in cold blood, wasn't okay, but his fall seemed a bit exaggerated. Like if a marine shot a member of ISIS in broad daylight while they were fleeing an active terror event I don't imagine there'd be a lot of blowback, just a stunned public. At the end of a day you shot someone that the public isn't too angry about.

I know the time period FATWS show came out in, but yeah, I think they missed a little with that. It very unfortunately leaned more into "victimized white guy" than "victimized minority." If they wanted the latter maybe show Walker as more of a controlling Heel character than what they showed.

Which makes his Thunderbolts direction interesting - if he was to be the original villain, I could totally have understood the foundations they were making for this character. Instead, we lean deeper into the sympathetic elements of his character until he kind of just... 180's. He's "part of the team" now. I don't know where else to take this character.

Between Walker and Valentina they really went in a different direction than I thought they were with this cast.

Edited by FOFD on May 5th 2025 at 10:59:41 AM

Hawkeye86 Spirit of Battle from Classified (Searching for Spock) Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Spirit of Battle
#810: May 5th 2025 at 10:48:36 AM

[up][up][up][up]How the Dora Millaje acted in the show always bothered me.

[up][up]I'm not sure they made him more sympathetic than intended. I think he was supposed to be sympathetic from the start. The showrunners wanted us to like him.

You and I remember Budapest very differently
Ego-Man25 Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#811: May 5th 2025 at 10:49:11 AM

Either way, as we've seen from the film makers of Thunderbolts*... rather than "overcorrect" in trying to make him the worst kind of patriot possible... they've opted to actually explore this Unintentionally Sympathetic individual, tinker with the man, cook a bit and ask, "...Okay, but what if we roll with the more sympathetic Walker here?"

Edited by Ego-Man25 on May 5th 2025 at 10:50:50 AM

Self-professed Wild Card who thinks cynicism isn't so bad.
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#812: May 5th 2025 at 10:53:40 AM

In the grand scheme of things, Walker got off incredibly easily.

If he hadn't done what he did in front of cameras, he probably wouldn't have been discharged at all.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#813: May 5th 2025 at 11:08:06 AM

Murdered someone in public for killing his friend.

That is not correct. Karli killed his friend. The Flagsmasher he killed was just the only one he could catch.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#814: May 5th 2025 at 11:11:54 AM

Well, its made clear enough even in FATWS that Walker is mostly being dismissed from his role so the government can save face. And that's how Valentina reached out to him in the first place.

People forget that the show DID give some redemption to Walker, though, in the finale.

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#815: May 5th 2025 at 11:38:57 AM

He gave up on revenge in the finals of the show

Just Makima.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#816: May 5th 2025 at 12:35:24 PM

His murder of the Flag Smasher was being compared to George Floyd's murder by a racist cop.

I always found that an insulting comparison to make because it is the evils of centrism on display.

Because it's not GOOD that cops shoot murderous terrorists as extrajudicial executions. It's not very Captain America. But in RL, the issue is not shooting terrorists but innocent people.

It adds a moral ambiguity that doesn't exist in RL and is insulting to the issue.

To avoid RL minority issues, like if Oswald killed Kennedy but Kennedy shot first.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on May 5th 2025 at 12:35:46 PM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TomWithoutJerry Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good. from Where Might Makes Right and I have no Might. Since: Dec, 2023
Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good.
#817: May 5th 2025 at 12:36:14 PM

They most likely won't deal with Sam versus Bucky on the team issue in any meaningful fashion.

Because we all know the next movie doesn't take place in this universe so it won't be addressed there and then the next movie is Doomsday, right? At most they're discussing it and then boom, Doom is there and they all've got better things to think about and the threat's too big, everyone's an Avenger again now, even you this time, Nightcrawler and Cyclops.

Edited by TomWithoutJerry on May 5th 2025 at 3:36:53 PM

Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.
chino514 (Apprentice)
#818: May 5th 2025 at 1:04:12 PM

And by some convoluted method, those two will join the team in the comics too, since you know they love that synergy.

Edited by chino514 on May 5th 2025 at 4:04:27 AM

MurlocAggroB from the second-most ridiculous province of Canada Since: May, 2015
#819: May 5th 2025 at 1:07:27 PM

[up][up] That's fine. It works as a gag for the stinger, and it's something that I'm sure Doomsday can mine some more comedy out of. I don't need a whole movie about them squabbling over trademark issues.

regulation pigeon
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#820: May 5th 2025 at 1:23:57 PM

The government also should own the Avengers trademark.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
AlexHopeLife Since: Feb, 2025
#821: May 5th 2025 at 1:42:43 PM

One thing I'm wondering is if the phrase β€œHe’s stronger than all of the Avengers rolled into one.” is literal or just hyperbole.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#822: May 5th 2025 at 1:43:48 PM

Does Russia own the Red Guardian trademark? Like could they send a cease and desist to Alexei if they want to give the mantle to someone else?

Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#823: May 5th 2025 at 1:52:03 PM

So that's it? We some kinda... New Avengers?

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#824: May 5th 2025 at 1:53:46 PM

THIS IS RED GUARDIAN! HE'S GOT MY BACK! I WOULD ADVISE NOT TALKING TO HIM, HE HAS A LOT OF EMBARRASSING STORIES ABOUT YELENA'S SPORTS TEAM. HIS DAD JOKES TRAPS THE SOULS OF IT"S VICTIMS.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#825: May 5th 2025 at 1:54:33 PM

Those jokes don't really work when this film is not at all similar to Suicide Squad.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

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