TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Thunderbolts*

Go To

Dictionaryman616 Since: Mar, 2020 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#676: May 4th 2025 at 4:48:14 AM

Val set up the Xanatos Gambit for them to become the New Avengers with them relucantly accepting it otherwise they'd pop her off on the spot. Taskmaster dying wasn't intended in the operation but worked regardless for them to assemble. It's not bad, but it's somewhat an unprecedented ending.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#677: May 4th 2025 at 8:03:02 AM

One potential funny scene in Doomsday would ve the Mighty Avengers' reaction when the "homeless guy" throws Hulk to another country.

Two problems with this. Banner is in control and he doesn't start fights like the Hulk would and second, Bob establishes the void and his powers are a packaged deal. So if he's using his powers, they will have bigger problems

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#678: May 4th 2025 at 8:05:34 AM

One thing's for sure, no matter what happens Sentry is getting worfed hard.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#679: May 4th 2025 at 8:34:24 AM

Them agreeing to things to protect Bob, on the caveat that if Valentina tries anything, they'll talk and bury her as well, seems to be their motivation. I also suspect Bucky joined just to keep on eye on them in general.

Consider this. Bucky refused to work with John before (for good reason) and the man literally bloodied the shield due to cracking under the pressure. He might figure that this time, watching John to keep him from slipping is a good idea. It also lets him keep Valentina close as well.

They still sold out, but for a reason.

One Strip! One Strip!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#680: May 4th 2025 at 8:47:05 AM

I dunno, Valentina is the one who experimented on Bob in the first place, and they don't really need Valentina to do that really. Seriously, letting her go scott free with the assumption they can control her is pretty stupid. I've seen a lot of arguments for it, but I'm not convinced. They are letting a corrupt CIA director who has experimented on American citizens and was SO close to getting impeached go free.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#681: May 4th 2025 at 8:48:47 AM

[up] Amanda Waller: First time?

Just Makima.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#682: May 4th 2025 at 8:51:18 AM

Like I said, she's discount Waller IMO and not as charismatic.

Waller at least had leverage against the Squad and the likes of Batman to prevent a takeover.

And it makes the ending bad because the entire time the movie builds up to Fontaine getting defeated and impeached but NOPE. The Thunderbolts go along with this even though they could have easily called her out, and BUCKY is a legitimate congressman who could change the narrative since he's against her in the impeachment case.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
AlexHopeLife Since: Feb, 2025
#683: May 4th 2025 at 9:08:43 AM

They have an potential apocalypse with legs 5 meters away from them, it's not like they're in a position to aggravate the situation.

"Waller at least had leverage against the Squad and the likes of Batman to prevent a takeover."

And one believing that Batman is a hero.

Edited by AlexHopeLife on May 4th 2025 at 9:16:45 AM

ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#684: May 4th 2025 at 9:11:25 AM

[up][up][up][up]I mean, my read, though they aren't explicit about that is that their available choices are 'work together' or at minimum Bob is getting locked up until the end of time, with every possibility that all of them, except Bucky, are going with him, as they've all been running around committing large numbers of crimes at Val's behest and if she goes down, she's taking everyone with her. I don't love it, but I do think it's a lot closer to MAD than anything else, which is admittedly muddied by 'we own you' but I think the argument is that they just had a lot less to lose as they have the skills and strength to run on their own, which Val simply doesn't, relying on wealth/allies who she would lose if this came out. It's not that they're going along out of fear of what Val would do (or that this was really her plan in some Xanatos way) but that no one except them knows that Bob was the horrible monster that traumatized all of New York by locking everyone in their worst memories...that only remains true so long as everybody shuts up and there's no way to out Val without outing Bob.

Edited by ECD on May 4th 2025 at 9:13:23 AM

AlexHopeLife Since: Feb, 2025
#685: May 4th 2025 at 9:16:24 AM

"Bob is getting locked up until the end of time"

There's a greater chance of Void causing the end of the world than that actually happening.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#686: May 4th 2025 at 9:17:42 AM

Plus it's not just Bob. The movie's first ten minutes are Yelena murdering a bunch of security guards who couldn't possibly have all deserved such a death. That alone would get her life in prison.

And they all pretty much have similar baggage.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#687: May 4th 2025 at 9:18:50 AM

I do wonder if Doom trying to recruit the Void is how the New Avengers get involved in Doomsday.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#688: May 4th 2025 at 9:21:33 AM

The only thing that makes the ending really awkward, to me, is Bucky. I think it's in character for the rest of them to find putting de Fontaine under their thumb, keeping her powerless and unable to hurt anyone else, while profiting off of her - it's in keeping with them being selfish but good people willing to do the right thing but also perfectly happy to take advantage for profit at the same time.

It's Bucky, whose entire stake in this story was to stop de Fontaine and bring her to justice, that's the dissonant factor. There's no reason for Bucky to go along with it. The bit at the end with him arguing with Sam over it also really weird.

Speaking of the opening, I wonder if the people Bob void-ed offscreen in the medical center came back.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 4th 2025 at 9:22:47 AM

Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#689: May 4th 2025 at 9:38:13 AM

I thought Val's line implies Bucky's congressman run is over?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#690: May 4th 2025 at 9:41:52 AM

Val says "you only lasted half a term" right as she's about to try and frame and/or kill him. It was her gloating about something she was about to do, but that didn't turn out the way she hoped.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 4th 2025 at 9:42:25 AM

AlexHopeLife Since: Feb, 2025
#691: May 4th 2025 at 9:44:27 AM

I guess Bucky doesn't want his new friends to go to prison, or cause the apocalypse.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#692: May 4th 2025 at 9:58:53 AM

Are they his friends? He just met them and barely wanted to be here.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#693: May 4th 2025 at 10:13:37 AM

The creator of Sentry Paul Jenkins worked on this film

Just Makima.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#695: May 4th 2025 at 10:16:35 AM

Ah Paul Jenkins, I met him on Reddit once. Nice guy, very charming sense of humor.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
TomWithoutJerry Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good. from Where Might Makes Right and I have no Might. Since: Dec, 2023
Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good.
#696: May 4th 2025 at 10:54:21 AM

They probably don't know how to weave a government who isn't corrupt into the setting. A crooked government is an easy narrative tool to keep the heroes as underdogs despite their powers, and writing a "good" government now is a minefield because no one agrees on how a "good" government would work, and Hollywood writers treating "The Man" as "good" would be treated as reactionary.

Edit: that applies to Marvel and DC alike.

Edited by TomWithoutJerry on May 4th 2025 at 1:56:50 PM

Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#697: May 4th 2025 at 10:57:04 AM

Bucky going along with the ending completely ruined the congressman's case of trying to impeach Fontaine. That man had a reasonable speech about trusting the system to take out women like her, and Bucky completely ruins his efforts, it's baffling.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#698: May 4th 2025 at 11:01:33 AM

[up]I mean, the federal government in the MCU is simply such a total failure at any of this, that trusting them is insane. I would like it if it was different, but of course Bucky doesn't actually trust the system, it's insanely corrupt in every possible way.

[up][up]So government's in American superhero fiction need to operate in a very narrow (and somewhat schizophrenic fashion). They need to be good/moral enough that the hero handing over at least low-level threats for trial/punishment is an acceptable end to a story, but incompetent enough that the hero needs to do the work and it can't just be cops, AND they need to have some form of escalation dominance which allows them to be a massive threat to the hero, if the hero ever is framed/does anything wrong/the government is taken over by bad guys. This is deeply annoying to me, but is such a genre staple at this point that I don't think it's going anywhere.

AlexHopeLife Since: Feb, 2025
#699: May 4th 2025 at 11:14:42 AM

And I think every time a superhero or a group of superheroes tries to take on a role of political power to improve the world, it usually ends badly. (Not counting guys like Black Panther or Aquaman, who are already rulers to begin with)

I don't think there is a single "Superman or (Superman Expy) is the new ruler" story that ends well.

Edited by AlexHopeLife on May 4th 2025 at 11:23:17 AM

BigBadShadow25 With my last breath, I curse Zoidberg. from Basement at the Alamo (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Desperate
With my last breath, I curse Zoidberg.
#700: May 4th 2025 at 11:22:23 AM

Apparently they are spoiling what the asterisk means now in the marketing. Look at this billboard:

    Spoilers 
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/img_2787_6.jpeg

Edited by BigBadShadow25 on May 4th 2025 at 2:25:50 PM

You’re Gonna Carry That Weight.

Total posts: 1,663
Top