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Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#601: May 3rd 2025 at 9:41:19 AM

I actually find Val more entertaining than movie Waller who I feel is just to one note and... stupid for a lack of a better word.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#602: May 3rd 2025 at 9:43:32 AM

I find Val annoying, and genuinely a moron. At least Waller had some competence even if she's the most vile version since it's pretty clear that she's bullshitting the USA government with her squad as a way to protect the world from Superman-level threats when she wants them as her personal hitmen.

Hell, she does just that in the movie when she uses them to save her ass from a mistake she made.

Val really doesn't have much going for her, and I found her interactions with Bob to be narmy. She's barely trying to conceal the fact she's manipulating him, and Bob doesn't go along with it for long.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 4th 2025 at 12:44:25 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#603: May 3rd 2025 at 9:47:48 AM

[up] I mean I didn't get that impression at all. Waller is meant to be seen as this super spy genius who thought Harley Quinn could hold her own against Superman. Val at least wanted to use the Superman. I will argue that Val is much smarter than Waller and I feel that Julia Louis-Dreyfus is much better and more fun at playing hateable villain than Viola Davis. Also, I am sorry but I didn't find Val's scenes with Sentry to be nearly if only because it is clear that she is supposed to be in over her head unlike what DC wants you to believe with Waller.

Edited by Bullman on May 3rd 2025 at 11:51:02 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
AlexHopeLife Since: Feb, 2025
#604: May 3rd 2025 at 9:48:15 AM

It's kind of funny watching the animated series "My Adventures with Superman" and seeing how well Amanda Waller's plans worked for her.

Having all her plans ruined in less than five minutes is the closest thing to karma Amanda has gotten in recent years.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#605: May 3rd 2025 at 9:50:38 AM

[up][up] No? Superman was dead at that time, and Waller used Enchantress to sell the team to the government. Go watch Suicide Squad again.

Val couldn't even kill the Thunderbolts and is reduced to a puppet at the end(Which is really stupid, and they should have exposed her then and there because she's too dangerous to be free.) that's a humiliation that not even Waller suffered.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 4th 2025 at 12:51:02 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#606: May 3rd 2025 at 9:50:47 AM

At this point, I am surprised she isn't just upfront selling the Squad as the USA's super goon squad.

Wake me up at your own risk.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#607: May 3rd 2025 at 9:51:50 AM

Because she wants them as black ops to further American interests.

Val wants something like that, but she really doesn't have the chops for it.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#608: May 3rd 2025 at 9:52:21 AM

[up][up][up] Expect she then expected them to be able to fight the Enchantress which proves that she legit believer her own bs. Also The Suicide Squad ended with with Waller being intimidated by Idris Elba's character which I would argue is even more embarrassing.

Edited by Bullman on May 3rd 2025 at 11:54:08 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#609: May 3rd 2025 at 9:53:07 AM

And they did.

They had El Diablo on their team. But really the Squad's main mission was to extract Waller, she didn't really care about getting rid of the Enchantress using the Squad, the Squad did that on her own.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 4th 2025 at 12:54:09 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#610: May 3rd 2025 at 9:54:57 AM

I am sorry but I just massively disagree with you on Val and don't think we will agree. I find her much more entertaining than Waller who I have never liked.

Edited by Bullman on May 3rd 2025 at 11:56:33 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
AlexHopeLife Since: Feb, 2025
#611: May 3rd 2025 at 9:55:18 AM

I think the biggest difference is that, unlike Amanda Waller, at least they don't want to sell Valentina to us as some kind of "evil genius."

Valentina is someone whose plans mostly backfire, and that's reflected in the film.

Amanda Waller is someone whose plans mostly backfire, and they try to sell her as a "mastermind."

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#612: May 3rd 2025 at 9:56:23 AM

Either way, I think it's a MASSIVE mistake for the good guys here to let Fontaine go scott free from her crimes and cover her ass because Fontaine WILL turn this around when the next crisis hits.

Plus Bucky just ruined that congressman's case by going along with this. What the hell man?

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 4th 2025 at 12:56:53 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#613: May 3rd 2025 at 9:57:51 AM

Okay yeah just letting her go was a mistake.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#614: May 3rd 2025 at 9:59:36 AM

Yeah, that choice made me sour on the movie because there was a whole plot line about Bucky and the Congressman working to bring Fontaine to justice and it would have been satisfying to see the Thunderbolts call her out on live TV and reveal her various crimes to the public to seal her impeachment.

But they selfishly go along with it so they can become the New Avengers. Damn it. Justice for so many victims is gone because of them.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 4th 2025 at 1:00:07 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
TomWithoutJerry Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good. from Where Might Makes Right and I have no Might. Since: Dec, 2023
Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good.
#615: May 3rd 2025 at 10:07:20 AM

Right after Ross the country will probably be even demoralized if yet another public figure is outed, which isn't fair but in all honesty, by now the MCU US population should probably just be moving out en masse.

The writing team basically forgot introducing a suitable well intentioned change of leadership when writing the current leadership as corrupt, so all it's left is a cynical "nobody actually calling the shots will ever be good unless they come from the hero business who took businesses into their own hands" message which... is sort of problematic.

Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.
AlexHopeLife Since: Feb, 2025
#616: May 3rd 2025 at 10:07:47 AM

I mean, Yelena's new friend is someone who almost destroyed New York, so they run the risk of Valentina mentioning him.

TomWithoutJerry Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good. from Where Might Makes Right and I have no Might. Since: Dec, 2023
Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good.
#617: May 3rd 2025 at 10:09:29 AM

Then again the Hulk was redeemed in the public eye to the point of being an Avenger for like two years in universe, which probably is a longer in universe membership than what Hulk's ever had in the comics. So...

Edited by TomWithoutJerry on May 3rd 2025 at 1:09:56 PM

Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.
Dictionaryman616 Since: Mar, 2020 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#618: May 3rd 2025 at 10:11:30 AM

[up] Like I stated before previously they'll never go beyond perfunctory aesops to preserve the Rule of Cool. Secret Invasion agrees. Living anywhere in New York is essentially a one-way ticket to purgatory. It's the MCU's nexus of oblivion.

Edited by Dictionaryman616 on May 3rd 2025 at 1:13:42 PM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#619: May 3rd 2025 at 10:17:08 AM

The much praised handling of mental illness wasn’t a disaster like I was expecting but it’s not exactly great either. Mentally ill people are still people and not violent psychopaths (unless they get infused with powers from demon dimensions). It turns out what most of them need are hugs and not beating them up with superpowers. If you think that’s a spoiler, you will realize this is not the case within a few minutes of Bob’s introduction. It comes as a bit ridiculous after we had the same plot beat in Brave New World.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#620: May 3rd 2025 at 10:24:13 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]

Yeah but Fontaine's a public figure who has been getting a LOT of scrutiny and an impeachment trial, showing that the system works by arresting her for corruption and other crimes would restore public faith in the system for working.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
TomWithoutJerry Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good. from Where Might Makes Right and I have no Might. Since: Dec, 2023
Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good.
#621: May 3rd 2025 at 10:42:37 AM

If only it were as simple as hugging. Psychologically damaged people will often lash back out or shrink away from that because they're afraid of being lied to and let down. Talking from experience. So the lesson is a bit simplistic but there's only so much they could do in the span of a single film.

Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.
Prowler I'm here for our date, Rose! Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
I'm here for our date, Rose!
#622: May 3rd 2025 at 10:46:53 AM

I also wouldn't want to hang too much up on "baby's first psych lesson" for a four-quadrant audience.

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#623: May 3rd 2025 at 10:48:32 AM

I'm considering whether I want to see this film or not. The trailers made it look like a generic 'buddy action-comedy', which is fine, but that genre has become a bit saturated, but from the sounds of it, whilst it most certainly is that, it also has a lot of depth to it, not dissimilar to the Guardians films?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#624: May 3rd 2025 at 11:08:07 AM

I think it really stood out how no one cared about her, not even Yelena.

Let me make it clear, I’m not the least bit happy about Taskmaster.

You had the chance to fix all the issues with her, film, but you threw her out. I know some are like, ‘’who cares’’, but if you can’t trust these guys to fix what they break, what’s to stop them from doing it to other characters if they seem like too much trouble?

That was my thoughts on not re-casting Kang, and that’s my thoughts with Taskmaster.

Also, now everything Natasha did to save her has been rendered moot.

Put all of this in spoilers, just for those who might have still not seen the film yet.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ego-Man25 Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#625: May 3rd 2025 at 11:17:45 AM

Alas, kill Taskmaster off they did. Sometimes, people don't want to do more interesting things with a character, they just want to stop writing them altogether. And it would appear a good amount of Tropers feel that is a horribly reductive line of thinking, but… that is what they wound up settling on.

Self-professed Wild Card who thinks cynicism isn't so bad.

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