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Captain America: Brave New World

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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#476: Feb 21st 2025 at 2:50:11 AM

The irony being that Ross is based on Biden not Trump because the writers assumed the former would win the election.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#477: Feb 21st 2025 at 2:56:38 AM

[up]In that case, Ross dangling the prospect of a pardon on Leader to keep his help only to deny him that promise does take on the symbolism of the reputation that centrists among the Democratic Party taking their minority and progressive voter base for granted. I can't say more as it's dipping too deep into the banned topic.

But I am still calling out Marvel for not casting Shira Haas as Diamondback instead to avoid all the problems given her supersuit is more or less similar to Diamondback's in the comics. Plus her and Isaiah becoming friends and even planning to watch a NBA game together does sound like a callback to Diamondback being a close ally to Steve.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#478: Feb 21st 2025 at 3:18:49 AM

I love Rosa Salazar so I would have loved her as Diamondback.

But as another Classy Cat-Burglar, it would have been hard to put her in Ruth's role.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#479: Feb 21st 2025 at 3:36:07 AM

Who is Rosa Salazar?

Edit: Oh wait. She was Alita: Battle Angel.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 21st 2025 at 5:36:58 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#480: Feb 21st 2025 at 3:44:44 AM

Am I the only one who wished that Sam kept his white suit?

It looked a little too Captain Patriotic and the white collar around the neck seemed excessive. I like the slicker, modern version they had where the collar was trimmed down - like how Steve's went from a gaudy costume designed for advertisement to a sleeker look.

Edited by FOFD on Feb 21st 2025 at 6:45:01 AM

KRider Desire Grand Prix Entry from Origin System Since: Feb, 2021
Desire Grand Prix Entry
#481: Feb 21st 2025 at 4:12:26 AM

It's also understandable why they chose to make Ross the US President for this movie considering that 1 of the themes is whether redemption is possible for someone w/ that many skeletons in his closet and the audience has seen Ross' actions throughout the MCU's history. It's a quick and easy way to make the kind of story the writers want to tell. It may still be possible to tell more or less the same story w/ a different US President and w/ keeping the villains mostly to just the Serpent Society and maybe even the hypothetical US President Evil as either their patsy or their secret ally, maybe even have him turn into a weresnake like in the comics but it would take more skill and effort.

Set! Avenge! "Henshin." Black General! Bujin Sword! Ready, Fight!
LadyBlackwood The show must go on from Wouldn't you like to know? Since: Jun, 2023 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The show must go on
#482: Feb 21st 2025 at 5:01:58 AM

But I am still calling out Marvel for not casting Shira Haas as Diamondback instead to avoid all the problems given her supersuit is more or less similar to Diamondback's in the comics.
A lot of people objected to Shira herself as much as to the character she played so I'm not sure it would have helped.

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#483: Feb 21st 2025 at 6:52:12 AM

[up][up] Just make Ross like Armstrong from MGR. Gamma Radiation, son!

Just Makima.
GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#484: Feb 21st 2025 at 8:24:02 AM

I honestly feel really bad for Shira Haas. She got screwed over completely for things she can't even control. She was supposed to be a superhero and Jewish/Israeli representation like scarlet Scarab was for Egypt, but because of all the backlash she got relegated to basically a minor spy character. Plus the superpowers were supposed to make up for her height, but since she never had/used them, she just looks unbelievable as a Black Widow.

It also sucks for Rollins and Salazar, but since they were cut completely, and the Serpent Society is still out there, they could come back in a more comic accurate roles.

Edited by GateStarX on Feb 21st 2025 at 8:24:50 AM

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#485: Feb 22nd 2025 at 10:23:15 AM

So, yesterday saw an 82.4% from last Friday. So, yeah looking like a pretty bad second weekend.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 22nd 2025 at 12:24:04 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#486: Feb 22nd 2025 at 10:49:03 AM

Just came out from a reasonably full cinema.

I liked it but turns out the trailers is all the red hulk material.

Basically i liked it all apart from Ross and Ross is a big bit of it.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#487: Feb 22nd 2025 at 7:18:57 PM

Saw it today. I quite liked it.

It's more of a spy action film than a political thriller, but once that comes across it's still pretty great. Less of that political bite that we got from Winter Soldier, but it still heavily maintains the core and important "being truly patriotic is doing what's right, not whatever your country says" and "trust morals, not authority, and endeavor to push those morals onto authority" themes that imo make Captain America what he is. I understand the complaints that it's not going far enough in a time where people really want stories like this to do so, but it imo does say many things it should right now even if it goes for a more idealistic spin.

Speaking of idealistic, this is a shockingly bloodless movie. People die here and there, but always in isolated moments and but way less than you might think overall. Something I hope happens across the company line with Superman: in any action scene where innocent bystanders might get killed, the movie always establishes that Sam or Jaoquin got to them and rescued in the nick of time. The evil mooks are all brainwashed, and Sam explicitly does not kill any of them. Heck, the mooks in the opening fight before the brainwashing comes in are dealt with in what look like non-lethal ways. Even the helicopters Red Hulk obliterates in the final fight are explicitly stated to be drones, Dragonball Ocean Dub style.

On top of that Sidewinder lives, and all but brags about being out again in the future (so maybe we will get actual Serpent Society stuff in the future). The Leader lives to scheme on, and hopefully be Hulk's actual archenemy at some point who knows. Ross lives on, still with the Red Hulk (probably going to be in whatever Avengers project is coming up).

There's some stuff I wish they'd done differently. I still maintain that while I don't necessarily mind a Hulk sequel happening with a different hero as a protagonist, doing so while Banner himself is nowhere to be seen is too far. Maybe they didn't want a muddled set of plots like what happened with Thor Ragnarok, but he really should've been there in some capacity, like maybe he could've been the person Sam sent the pills off to to get analyzed. Also, with Isaiah being such a big part of Sam's motivation here, it's weird that we never once see Elijah anywhere. Not even like a short scene of him trying to visit his grandfather in prison, or even him just like saying hi to Sam as he visits Isaiah or something.

But the only real complaint I think I have is that Sterns ultimately kind of feels like Zemo 2. Almost everything about him and what he's doing, really, feeel like a repeat of that character concept with some Winter Soldier flavor thrown in. Which isn't necessarily bad, but it's just really noticeable and beyond his mad science personality I was hoping he would distinguish himself a bit more.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 22nd 2025 at 7:21:33 AM

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#488: Feb 22nd 2025 at 7:26:27 PM

[up] Well, for one thing, Sterns actually looks like a supervillain. I was honestly disappointed that Zemo didn't wear any variation of his classic mask in Civil War.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#489: Feb 22nd 2025 at 7:37:16 PM

Funnily enough, I got sort of the opposite vibe from his design. Like, don't get me wrong, he's a freaky green mutate with an enlarged brain and evil glowing eyes, but he's a freaky green mutate who mostly walks around in shlubby plainclothes and casual posture who carries himself like a regular dude. Which I liked: it works with his self-perception as a regular guy ("the hero," he once calls himself) who got his life ruined - he's not quite The Leader yet, and it's only now that he's on the path to becoming that way.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 22nd 2025 at 7:37:56 AM

Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#490: Feb 22nd 2025 at 9:37:28 PM

A workmate of mine wondered how he got around.

Asherinka from Winterfell Since: Jan, 2018
#491: Feb 23rd 2025 at 2:38:25 AM

I've done some math because I can smile I used https://www.boxofficemojo.com/ and https://www.imdb.com/ as sources of data.

So, on average a movie in Phases 4,5 earned 783m, including 354m in the US (45%), and 138m of that were frontloaded and earned in the opening weekend. Total earnings in the US on average were equal to the opening earnings multiplied by 2.4. That last figure is highly correlated with the film's rating.

Now let's look at Brave New World. US opening - 100m, domestic share - 55% (which is higher than the average), current IMDB rating - 6.1.

Total earnings:

  • Best case scenario, domestic/opening=2.4: 100*2,4/0,55=436m
  • Worst case scenario, domestic/opening=1.8: 100*1,8/0,55=327m

PS

  • Shang-Chi, Black Widow and Eternals all suffered from Covid. If one looks at the number of people who rated them on IMDB, it appears that many people just watched those at home.
  • Movies that international audiences did not appreciate as much as the US audiences did: Brave New World, Wakanda Forever, Shang-Chi. Notice the pattern.
  • Those opening vs domestic/opening columns are the embodiment of "expectations vs reality" tongue

Of all the things at risk, the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous.
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#492: Feb 23rd 2025 at 2:50:36 AM

So a more considered opinion after a day.

I still don't like the concept of the Ross stuff to touch on forbidden topics. the idea a bad guy can reform and be a decent PotUS who's trying seems laughable these days, likewise a PotUS accepting responsibility for crimes and going to jail, the later is at least a decent message of what should be.

It's not badly performed though. It really is a shame William Hurt passed away because it's the first chunky role requiring acting Ross has had since The Incredible Hulk, maybe he's been pining for Betty all these years but didn't we see it? It seemed abrupt.

Okay so I don't like Red Hulk, and really the interesting bits of Red Hulk would be Ross reflecting on the irony and now being in Banners situation and because we only have Red Hulk at the end for the finale that doesn't happen. The trailers kind of screw it up by showing that I think.

The actual fight was fine, we seem Sam fighting the good fight, only barely getting by with his skill and vibranium suit and trying and finally getting through with his Counselling skills, works

As to Banner He was referenced a lot early on making his absence kind of notable. There only being one fight with Red Hulk reduces the silliness. If Sam had had a break between encounters and needed to come up with anti-hulk tactics, then Banner would really be missing a niche. As it is I guess they didn't need him or Jen. A cameo would still be nice.

As to cameos Bucky's was nice. But I'm sure everyone's already noted the big question is how he goes from aspiring politician to Thunderbolt*. Hopefully the latter film will explain

Tangentially it made me thing that Sam's support team here seem to be new military characters rather than past Marvel characters, it does make him come off as separate from the superhero community and makes Ross wanting to recreate the Avengers tonally a bit weird. None of the films seem to agree on what's going on there.

The McGuffin being Adamantium was kinda eh. We all know Adamantium has only one purpose: grafting onto the bones of canadian mutants and his spin-offs and rogues gallery

There's a lot of me moaning about various bits there but overall I think it's a very solid enjoyable outing. Maybe not ambitious in it's message but it's not a rehash of FatWS, aside from a couple of scenes Sam is very confident and established in the role of Captain America and no-one questions it. His chemistry with Torres is very good and very different from the one he has with Bucky.

The action is very tight with an exception amount of shield use and throwing and more ricochets than Steve. The one on one fight out of costume with Sidewinder was a real highlight, very tense and well shot with the tiniest exception of How did Sam survive that grenade? I don't think it's so out of line with regular action movies to be remarkable.

All of all I enjoyed it.

Edited by dcutter2 on Feb 23rd 2025 at 4:11:17 PM

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#493: Feb 23rd 2025 at 8:07:23 AM

Kojima didn't like Brave New World. His review stems from not being caught up on D+.

Edited by Mizerous on Feb 23rd 2025 at 11:07:57 AM

Just Makima.
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#494: Feb 23rd 2025 at 8:20:14 AM

[up] Eh, you know how Kojima tells you a movie is terrible.

He just flat out doesn't talk about it or just say "I watched the movie".

Note his review of The Marvels is like that. He never makes an elaborate statement asking where Ms. Marvel came from.

Edited by Shadao on Feb 23rd 2025 at 8:24:49 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#495: Feb 23rd 2025 at 8:59:52 AM

[up][up] Cool for him, but I mean he's not a critic and, while I like his games, I don't think he has ever made a movie. I am not saying he can't have an opinion, but it is weird to bring it up like it should mean something to those who aren't following him. I am just confused why he is being brought up.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 23rd 2025 at 11:04:09 AM

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Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#496: Feb 23rd 2025 at 9:12:20 AM

[up] Outside opinion from this site or youtube on people's opinions of the film. Seems like a more casual view too.

Just Makima.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#497: Feb 23rd 2025 at 9:23:56 AM

How is a random celebrity a "casual view"? Casual views are those people online who just watch movies for fun and have no real status in celebrity. At least in my opinion.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 23rd 2025 at 11:28:44 AM

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Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#498: Feb 23rd 2025 at 9:34:54 AM

Hideo Kojima does watch movies just for fun, though.

He may use movies as influence on his games, but he still is also a moviegoer in general.

Either way, Brave new world is projected to make 289 million this weekend world wide. Thats still quite a ways behind ant man quantumania's 320 million in the same time frame.

Its not a Marvels level disaster, but for its budget, its still a flop, not likely to break even, even with a relatively quiet box office for PG-13 action movies (Which if anything makes its performance even more stark then Antman 3's, as that had actual competition that year.)

Watch Symphogear
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#499: Feb 23rd 2025 at 9:54:38 AM

[up] I mean that still doesn't make him a "casual view" when he is a major celebrity, which means that people give his opinion much more weight than some random people who go "I like/dislike" it.

No. It's not yet a flop and it is doing good by its budget of 180. It's already made that and is going to make more.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 23rd 2025 at 12:02:37 PM

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TomWithoutJerry Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good. from Where Might Makes Right and I have no Might. Since: Dec, 2023
Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good.
#500: Feb 23rd 2025 at 10:01:04 AM

It's just a movie. You've been desperate about it the whole time. Take it easy.

Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.

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