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Captain America: Brave New World

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king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#276: Feb 15th 2025 at 10:02:28 AM

I haven't seen the film yet, so can't comment on it's quality, but it is nuts how much this is a Hulk film without the Hulk: Red Hulk, one of his main antagonists, is the main antagonist here; Hulk's main love interest returns; another major antagonist, the Leader, who had been set up as a villain in The Incredible Hulk. Even ignoring the comics and just focusing on the MCU itself, Betty was presented as Banner's love interest in the MCU and The Leader was set up in his film. Ross was also originally a Hulk antagonist in the MCU, but at least Civil War and Black Widow gave him importance beyond that so it's not jarring seeing him in a major role here. It's not a deal breaker or anything - I'm not a comic fan or a huge Hulk fan in general and, ultimately, what matters is the quality of the film - but I do understand the complaints that it does feel, on paper at least, like too much of a Hulk film without the Hulk.

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Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#277: Feb 15th 2025 at 10:07:12 AM

I mean, Thor Ragnorak is pretty much Planet Hulk just so happens to guest star Thor. Blame the Universal clause for MCU having to resort to Stealth Sequel method for Hulk films.

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#278: Feb 15th 2025 at 10:12:03 AM

At least that had Hulk in it (in a fairly major role) and at least it didn't appropriate much that had been set up for Hulk in the MCU, so it didn't feel like Hulk was shafted within the confines of the MCU itself.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#279: Feb 15th 2025 at 10:13:04 AM

No spoilers, but I can't help but wonder how much Ross' portrayal was changed by Hurt dying and Ford taking over the role. Like would they have treated him differently if Ford wasn't attached.

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TomWithoutJerry Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good. from Where Might Makes Right and I have no Might. Since: Dec, 2023
Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good.
#280: Feb 15th 2025 at 10:25:17 AM

Hey, we had a whole Spider-Man universe without Spider-Man and it was successf— wait.

We had a whole trilogy of Venom movies without Spider-Man and they were successful.

Edited by TomWithoutJerry on Feb 15th 2025 at 2:26:17 PM

Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#281: Feb 15th 2025 at 10:29:23 AM

The first two were good for all the wrong reasons, the third one was awful IMO.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#282: Feb 15th 2025 at 10:32:53 AM

And 2 I think grossly mishandled Carnage. Could've been great parallels to Eddie and Venom... The ball was dropped, imo.

MurlocAggroB from the second-most ridiculous province of Canada Since: May, 2015
#283: Feb 15th 2025 at 10:35:25 AM

I don't understand the complaint. Captain America should be fighting political conspiracies. The Leader makes sense as the mastermind of a political conspiracy. It's not mismatched at all.

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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#284: Feb 15th 2025 at 10:37:49 AM

My review?

Here we go!

CAPTAIN AMERICA: BRAVE NEW WORLD is the latest Marvel Cinematic Universe movie. A lot of people wondered if this would be the movie to restore it after a series of less than impressive entries. Others believed it would be another dud that would show that the series was finished after AVENGERS: ENDGAME. The answer is neither. Captain America: Brave New World is fine, above average even. It's no Thor: Dark World or Avengers: Ultron but I'd say it's probably the third best Captain America film, fourth if you count Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It's good but my highest praise is that it's a B+ movie. It's a fun superhero time that involves a lot of shooting, punching, and flying but not much to say about anything.

The premise is that Captain America (Anthony Mackie) has been working with the US military, which causes some trouble with his mentor, Isaiah Bradley (Carl Lumbly). The United States has recently elected Thaddeus "Thunderbolt" Ross (Harrison Ford) to the Presidency and a lot of superheroes are less than pleased given his role in the Sokovia Accords. Interesting, Thaddeus' bad reputation as a General Ripper-type applies to even other nations. Thaddeus insists that he is a better man than he used to be, though, and wants to secure a legacy as a peacetime president rather than a wartime hero.

What follows is a basic caper story with Sidewinder (Giancarlo Esposito) and the Serpent Society stealing a bunch of adamantium from Celestial Island. If you don't know what Celestial Island is, it's that thing created at the ending of the Eternals. Apparently, it's made of the substance that fans of Wolverine love and is even better than vibranium. Comic Nerd Rant: Which is ridiculous because vibranium has other properties than just being hard. In celebration of Captain America recovering it, President Ross invites him and his guests to the White House. There, he's almost assassinated and Isaiah Bradley is blamed.

I won't get much more into the story because there's actually quite a few "mysteries" that were completely spoiled by the trailers for the film. I can understand why Disney did it: they wanted to get buts in seats. However, there's two big reveals in this film that are meant to make MCU fans go, "oooo!" These big reveals are something most MCU fans are going to go into the film already knowing. I'm not going to go into them but one of the biggest flaws of this film is that Bruce Banner has emotional ties to a lot of characters and plots from this story and the movie would have been improved tremendously if the Hulk had been a co-star.

Anthony Mackie's Captain America is fantastic and the movie "gets" who Captain America is meant to be. He's meant to be a figure who uses his words with his fists (as well as his awesome power armor). Some people may object to the whole issue of a legacy hero but actors age, unlike comic book heroes, and the plot of trying to live up a legacy is interesting. It's just a shame that Steve Rogers never shows up to mention that he was just a kid from Brooklyn. It was everyone else who made him into a legend. We get the next best thing, though.

Harrison Ford does a fantastic job with the character and brings a humanity to him. Thaddeus Ross has generally just been a one-dimensional but believable character. This Ross has done a huge amount of shady stuff and evil science projects but believes being President will allow him to redeem himself. There's much about whether redemption is possible and the movie also indicates that it's impossible unless you take responsibility for your actions. It's a good message that, sadly, runs into the larger political concerns.

Basically, this movie has the mother of all bad timing for people to want to see it because of real-life politics. It's not the case of Red vs. Blue (which is actually part of the problem). It's the fact that politics are pissing off everyone in America right now. This is a movie about unity, reconciliation. and a story that doesn't really reflect anything but fictional world stories. Not taking a stand on anything and saying we're all the same may be admirable some times but just about everyone these days is saying pick a lane. Example: one of the main characters is an adaptation of Israeli special forces mutant, Sabra, who isn't a mutant or special forces here. She's also noticeably so short that in a movie with giant red monsters, I don't buy her able to take down grown men.

In conclusion, this is a good movie. It's a fun movie. It's not a blow you away movie. However, this is a movie that I got out of my seat to go see in theaters rather than wait for it to show up on Disney+. I'm as stressed by the world as anyone else and this was a fun insight into a planet much much better off than our current one.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TomWithoutJerry Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good. from Where Might Makes Right and I have no Might. Since: Dec, 2023
Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good.
#285: Feb 15th 2025 at 10:39:39 AM

[up][up]It's still kind of an instance of being set to punch above the power level plus, with fans, a sense of betrayed expectations of more than a decade of waiting to see characters face off against one character only to have them facing against someone else instead.

Edited by TomWithoutJerry on Feb 15th 2025 at 2:40:21 PM

Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.
Dictionaryman616 Since: Mar, 2020 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#286: Feb 15th 2025 at 10:57:49 AM

Movie's on par with Black Widow. Just pure action movies with minor continuity errors and quasi-geopolitics. Not a Cash Cow more like a Sleeper Hit.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#287: Feb 15th 2025 at 11:00:54 AM

[up][up] Most people don’t really care about power levels in that way, so I wouldn’t see that affecting the movie’s reception.

In general, I don’t mind Captain America having a film with Hulk enemies, but Banner not being present at all while this movie is continuing story arcs set up by his last film is a misstep. Bruce should at least *be there.*

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 15th 2025 at 11:02:16 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#288: Feb 15th 2025 at 11:05:16 AM

Film Mark Ruffalo going, "This guy sucks and I endorse the other guy."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Moroaica Since: Aug, 2017
#289: Feb 15th 2025 at 11:21:47 AM

Apparantely Ross is treated sympathetically, which is a dissapointment. Reminds me of how Falcon and Winter Soldier had US Agent be sympathetic while the eeeevil leftists who had the evil plan of making sure resources are shared to the poor all died.

lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#290: Feb 15th 2025 at 11:21:51 AM

So I feel like it's safe to say this movie will qualify for So Okay, It's Average after the 6-month waiting period.

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Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#291: Feb 15th 2025 at 11:23:33 AM

[up]Probably.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 15th 2025 at 1:23:43 PM

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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#292: Feb 15th 2025 at 11:36:58 AM

While it's subtle, if you look at the placards in his crowd, Ross is the Democratic candidate.

And I'd argue the movie is by far the absolute meanest to Ross in terms of his actions. The movie repeatedly hammers home what an awful fucking human being he was and that his attempts to change (because he had a scare with his heart attacks), actually failed because the reason the Leader hates him is because Ross said he'd pardon him when he became President and...didn't. Because Sterns was too useful and he worried he'd need him.

Ross also knows Isaiah is innocent and that the Leader is responsible but continues to let Isaiah rot in jail. He also plans to have him executed to cover it up.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 15th 2025 at 11:41:05 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TomWithoutJerry Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good. from Where Might Makes Right and I have no Might. Since: Dec, 2023
Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good.
#293: Feb 15th 2025 at 11:39:37 AM

N/M.

Edited by TomWithoutJerry on Feb 15th 2025 at 3:40:28 PM

Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.
king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#294: Feb 15th 2025 at 11:39:59 AM

It's still kind of an instance of being set to punch above the power level plus, with fans, a sense of betrayed expectations of more than a decade of waiting to see characters face off against one character only to have them facing against someone else instead.
I don't really care about power levels and I don't think most people do. If the narrative justifies victory, then it does. I'm sure Galactus is much more powerful than the Fantastic Four, and yet I'm sure the film will justify their inevitable victory (assuming they win, that is).
I don't understand the complaint. Captain America should be fighting political conspiracies. The Leader makes sense as the mastermind of a political conspiracy. It's not mismatched at all.
I'm sure it fits for the film, it's just weird to include so many Hulk elements (not just from the comics but things that have been set up for Hulk in the MCU) in a film where he doesn't even have a small role.

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The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps
#295: Feb 15th 2025 at 11:40:18 AM

People always talk about audience versus critic dissonance but this is a weird case of audience versus audience dissonance. You got sane casual internet reviewers calling this okay, audiences on Rt giving it an 80 which is high dont kid yourself. Then a cinemascore thats a B-

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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#296: Feb 15th 2025 at 11:42:46 AM

I'd say its the fourth best Captain America movie if we count Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

1. Winter Soldier 2. First Avenger 3. Falcon and the winter Soldier 4. This 5. Civil War

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#298: Feb 15th 2025 at 11:50:45 AM

I've criticized some Multiverse Saga sequels for having too broad an MCU focus to actually feel like entries into their own sub franchises. Multiverse of Madness doesn't have enough Doctor Strange mythology in it, Quantumania drops half the ant-man supporting cast and the heist genre.

I'm fine with Thunderbolt Ross being in this film, and even the primary villain given he was in the previous Captain America film and the president of the united states makes sense as a Cap villain.

I was kind of expecting Zemo and Bucky to be major players in the fourth film, given the roles they played in the third film. But I guess the Falcon and the Winter Soldier mini series used up all the Bucky, Zemo and Shannon reintroduction you would have expected for the fourth film.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#299: Feb 15th 2025 at 11:50:51 AM

[up][up]The other movies are better.

Civil War is fine but really I only remember it for Spider-Man and a few other bits.

Zemo is In Name Only.

It's fine but this is definitely a better movie.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Feb 15th 2025 at 11:51:08 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#300: Feb 15th 2025 at 11:53:09 AM

[up] Fair enough. I definitely prefer the Winter Soldier.

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