TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The Rival

Go To

randomtroper89 from The Fire Nation Since: Nov, 2010
#1: Oct 26th 2024 at 7:55:07 AM

The Rival is a really big trope, having over 10k wicks. It's also quite problematic. The actual definition is an antagonistic character who is not quite a villain, someone who is a foil to the hero. The problem is that is refers to any form of rivalry, even if one or both of the characters are evil.

Doing an actual trope repair shop will be a difficult and arduous task, I just want an acknowledgment that their is a wide gulf between what the trope is supposed to be and what it is used for.

Edited by randomtroper89 on Oct 26th 2024 at 10:49:27 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#2: Oct 26th 2024 at 11:33:32 AM

This has similar issues to other archetypes, like The Mentor, which is a specific character role but is used for literally any "mentor", even if they don't fill the story archetype. I also noticed that Rival Turned Evil specifies that they need to start as friends, which doesn't seem to pan out in examples either.

In other words, I think it's because the concept of "a rival" is so much broader than the trope itself, which seems to be based on anime if I had to guess (though we now have the more direct Stock Shōnen Rival). That's just a hunch because while I've seen these types of rivals in other scenarios, it seems to mostly be an anime thing, where every protagonist gets to have their rival; rivals in other media can fit into the broader roles. And tropes like Friendly Rivalry confuse it more since tropers are more likely to assume it's a subtrope than a contrasting trope.

Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 26th 2024 at 2:34:16 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#3: Oct 27th 2024 at 3:53:39 AM

Oldest Internet Archive copy does indeed have the early-wiki phrase "this is an Anime Trope" on it, and also seems to be even more specific than I was expecting based on the OP's description. (To my surprise, that decades-old paragraph, which seems to be describing a character arc as much as a character and seems to overlap with Defeat Means Friendship, remains part of the description to this day.)

Edited by MorganWick on Oct 27th 2024 at 3:54:13 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4: Oct 27th 2024 at 10:48:55 AM

Yeah, I thought as much. Rivals in western works don't fit the same exact pattern. At most they're often still foils, but in the way that any antagonist will be a foil to the hero to some degree.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#5: Oct 30th 2024 at 9:43:58 AM

At this point The Rival should probably be merged with Rivalry Tropes to create an indexing supertrope and the description and examples rejiggered accordingly. Stock Shōnen Rival seems to be targeting the original anime-centric definition.

[down]Duly noted.

Edited by StarSword on Oct 30th 2024 at 1:45:41 PM

Trust me, I'm an engineer!
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#6: Oct 30th 2024 at 10:16:35 AM

[up] Do note that we'd need to check 107 wicks for this to happen.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Add Post

Total posts: 6
Top