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Needs Help: Works By Subject, Mons Series, Superhero Stories, Vampire Fiction, Kaiju Works, Mecha Show, Mecha Game

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    Original OP 

The index Works by Subject was ostensibly created in order to house existing indices of works with significant commonalities in subject matter and themes. These indices were previously listed on Genres; however, the argument was made that many, such as Queer Media and Asian-American Media, did not actually meet the definition of a Genre.

Since then, as discussed in this Wiki Talk thread, a number of indexes went through the Trope Launch Pad whose definitions can largely be boiled down to "work prominently includes 'x' eponymous thing in it", which has a couple of problems:

Largely prompted by a Troper Critical Mass on the since-discarded TLP for Ursine Fiction, the thread previously voted to impose a moratorium on new Works About "X" Indexes. We have previously removed Samurai Stories and Shark Storiesnote  as redundant to existing tropes, and there is a lot of agreement to do the same to the entire "Animal Fiction" category; however, we have since agreed to create a thread to deal with the entirety of Works by Subject in one swoop.

Options proposed in Wiki Talk:

TLP Archive for Works By Subject

Edited by JustaUsername on Oct 18th 2025 at 7:52:12 PM

GrafVonTirol Same as it ever was from a state of boredom (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Standing outside, playing "In Your Eyes" on the boombox
Same as it ever was
#201: Nov 1st 2024 at 9:08:49 AM

[up] We'll get there. I do consider it overly broad so as to be useless, but that's a topic for another day.

EmperorAI Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms from The Cyber Space (Private) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms
#202: Nov 2nd 2024 at 1:04:40 AM

Any idea with the Main.Robot And AI Works? I am not sure if we should keep the works that involves cyborgs or not since they aren't really robots but organics with cybernetics. I wouldn't mind if we keep them or not though.

Also, page got too big with links so I suggest to separate the big ones into indexes

Hello there! I am just a guy who likes robots and A.I. in fiction! Robot Supremacy.
Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#203: Nov 2nd 2024 at 1:10:59 AM

[up] What are you talking about in your second paragraph?

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Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#204: Nov 2nd 2024 at 1:25:13 AM

[up] Literally, the page has the too-big warning.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
EmperorAI Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms from The Cyber Space (Private) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms
#205: Nov 2nd 2024 at 2:47:14 AM

I added to many links so I said in the second paragraph that we should make indexes for each media

Edited by EmperorAI on Nov 2nd 2024 at 10:47:24 AM

Hello there! I am just a guy who likes robots and A.I. in fiction! Robot Supremacy.
GrafVonTirol Same as it ever was from a state of boredom (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Standing outside, playing "In Your Eyes" on the boombox
Same as it ever was
#206: Nov 2nd 2024 at 7:02:02 AM

Hold off on doing anything about this one until we've settled it via crowner. I'm not certain that we can salvage this into anything.

EmperorAI Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms from The Cyber Space (Private) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms
#207: Nov 2nd 2024 at 7:38:04 AM

Got it

Hello there! I am just a guy who likes robots and A.I. in fiction! Robot Supremacy.
Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#208: Nov 2nd 2024 at 11:31:17 AM

So, should we have another crowner?

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StalkerGamer That's All, Folks! Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Love is an open door
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#210: Nov 2nd 2024 at 11:51:09 AM

So part of the reason why I listed out all of the potential merge/redirect targets is because even if people want to spin out new trope/genre pages from these pages, barring maybe Mons Series (which some have argued for keeping as a genre page, but again, see my question about what purpose that page would fulfill that Mons currently doesn't), most of these pages wouldn't be kept simply because the name is non-indicative of the new idea(s), e.g. if a Zombie Horror page is created, it would likely be named that and not the much broader Zombie Stories that it's being spun out of, meaning the current Zombie Stories page would still need to be cut or merged anyways.

Also, if concrete ideas aren't proposed for us to vote on (saying Vampire Fiction "can be reworked" doesn't say how or into what exactly, for example) and/or sponsors to draft the new pages, I feel like all new page suggestions should either be taken to the Trope Launch Pad to be properly drafted and the scope figured out or yarded.

Edited by amathieu13 on Nov 2nd 2024 at 11:52:31 AM

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#211: Nov 2nd 2024 at 1:18:29 PM

Mons Series I think has the strongest case to be kept, but that should probably still be accomplished by converting Mons into a genre index. Merge Mons into the page, with its implementation descriptions.

Edited by StarSword on Nov 2nd 2024 at 4:19:13 AM

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ninjamitsuki2 Mero Mero Merorin from The Altress of Fortuna Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Mero Mero Merorin
#212: Nov 2nd 2024 at 6:47:17 PM

A series can have Mons in it without being a Mons Series. For instance Magic Knight Rayearth and the DS version of Chrono Trigger do feature Mons but aren't a part of the Mons Series genre.

Edited by ninjamitsuki2 on Nov 2nd 2024 at 9:51:53 AM

Call me "Heruru Meruru". http://blue-star-above-me.tumblr.com/
Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#213: Nov 2nd 2024 at 6:55:13 PM

Some of the works listed on Robot and A.I. Works merely say that some supporting characters are robots. Make of that what you will. No wonder it’s now so long.

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Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#214: Nov 3rd 2024 at 12:20:40 AM

These should probably be limited to settings that have something to say about artificial personhood.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
EmperorAI Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms from The Cyber Space (Private) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms
#215: Nov 3rd 2024 at 2:38:20 AM

Since I want to keep all the links added, I suggest we add supportive too in the description of the page and then make indexes for each medias that is too large for one page.

That way we keep the all links and solve the too-big problem.

Hello there! I am just a guy who likes robots and A.I. in fiction! Robot Supremacy.
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#216: Nov 3rd 2024 at 2:50:24 AM

A few posts here makes me think casual readers really want "works featuring X" lists, when the stress of the thread I take is that these should be semi-genres.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#217: Nov 3rd 2024 at 10:29:47 AM

I almost feel like the Works by Subject indexes could help for people who want to read about fictional depictions of the things in question and the history of the ideas, but we do still have the relevant tropes. If Robot and A.I. Works and Alien Works do get cut, there’ll still be the Robot Roll Call and Alien Tropes, after all.

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Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#218: Nov 3rd 2024 at 11:30:19 AM

The difference is that those are lists of tropes and not lists of works, which is what people have voiced to be looking for. For trope pages, Artificial Intelligence could probably substitute Robot and A.I. Works, but I'm not sure what would be "this character is an alien".

The problem is that we've decided we can't have simple "works featuring X" lists unless X has some clear historical/theme significance that's common between works.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#219: Nov 3rd 2024 at 1:02:39 PM

[up][up][up]Yeah, I feel like we're relitigating the conversation that was had extensively, over the course of two years, in the other thread. If you didn't take part in that convo and haven't given it a read before (no judgment, just trying to make sure everyone's on the same page), extremely recommend doing so now because we've been over these points before (on this point specifically, here and here).

[down]Oh no, my comment was directed to the "casual readers" you brought up in your post. I was agreeing with your assessment and adding on

Edited by amathieu13 on Nov 3rd 2024 at 1:42:05 AM

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#220: Nov 3rd 2024 at 1:22:46 PM

[up] Thanks for the links for reference, but I'm not defending the indexes if that was the impression.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#221: Nov 3rd 2024 at 2:12:29 PM

I stickied the OP the other night because that question keeps recurring. The decision's basically been made.

Getting back to the fictional beings section, I've been trying to prepare the next crowner for the last couple of days. I know we talked about:

Were any others exceptions to the "redirect to corresponding Our Monsters Are Different and be done with it" proposal?

[down]Good catch, thanks.

Edited by StarSword on Nov 3rd 2024 at 9:59:57 AM

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Nethilia Girl Gang Disaster (she and zie) (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
Girl Gang Disaster (she and zie)
#222: Nov 3rd 2024 at 6:49:05 PM

Moving Dolls to MediaNotes.Dolls (and likely retaining the examples, as other Media Notes pages have examples)

ETA: Should it be Media Notes or Useful Notes? It's not exactly a media, more of a topic being explained.

Edited by Nethilia on Nov 3rd 2024 at 7:07:39 AM

I focus on obscure 1990s or graphic Middle Grade Literature novels and dolls. (She or zie, not they.)
Opabinia Since: Feb, 2019 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#223: Nov 4th 2024 at 10:16:06 AM

In favor of keeping LGBT Representation in Media because despite what some people are saying, not everything there can be subsumed into Queer Media. Sometimes people (yes, including queer people) want to consume media with queer people that's not primarily about them being queer. And lists of that are pretty hard to find, you'd probably have to look for each medium individually.

Likewise in favor of keeping the racial and ethnic minority indices, though maybe Arab-Americans in Media and Asian-American Media can be broadened to cover works by and about those diasporas in general, not just in the US.

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#224: Nov 4th 2024 at 10:19:50 AM

[up]The representation pages are not the current topic of discussion (though they will be eventually). Again, there's a lot of indices to get through so to avoid a disjointed and confusing convo, we're currently going by subtopic, and the current subtopic is non human characters

Opabinia Since: Feb, 2019 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#225: Nov 4th 2024 at 10:46:54 AM

In general, I'm opposed to removing many of these on personal preference for website ease of use. On the editor side, it's much easier to index a list of titles without having to add [/index][index] boxes around any bullet point that has a redlink but other links on the same line (whether author, parent work, or trope). On the reader side, reading an index to find a work with certain topics is much faster and easier to use than a trope page, which are often out of order and full of Word Cruft.

5th Sep '25 5:46:56 PM

Crown Description:

Several indexes contained within the Works By Subject index have been identified as having issues, with a key one being their lack of purpose as indexes. This crowner will determine what to do with several of the items on this index. Discussion starting here

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