TO-DO LIST
- Retool Kaiju Works and Vampire Fiction into more tightly defined genre pages through sandboxes (Sandbox.Vampire Fiction and Sandbox.Kaiju Works)
- Retool Mons Series into a more defined genre index, Mons Genre.
- Move contents on Superhero and Superhero Stories onto Superhero Genre, with "Superhero" being retooled as a Definition-Only page about the character archetype instead of the genre.
- Retool Mystery Fiction and Supernatural Fiction into proper supertropes.
- Retool Fighting Series and Sports Stories into genre tropes, or something more specific.
Indices Under Discussion
- All indices in "People and Demographics" (except Queer Media): Moves to Useful Notes or a merge with Media Diversity Tropes are options being taken into consideration. Discussion starts here
.
- Queer Media: Should it get streamlined into a proper genre page? Should Queer Romance be merged with it?
- Magical Girl Genre Index: There are concerns of redundancy with Magical Girl. Should it get merged into the latter?
- Mecha Show: Possibly getting retooled into a proper genre page or merged with Mecha Game, but it might be too redundant
with Real Robot Genre or Super Robot Genre.
- The options to cut Sea Stories, Space Stories and School Stories have been rejected in the lastest crowner
. However, some work may still need to be done in these pages. Fleshing them out and retooling them into supertropes for related genre tropes is a possible option
.
- The options to cut Christian Fiction and Military and Warfare Works have been contested
, with claims they are still worth keeping. Should they get narrowed and retooled into proper genre pages?
- The crowner has approved redirecting Video Game Stories... but there has been no agreement on which suitable page to redirect to. Candidates are Video Game Tropes, Video Game Culture and Fictional Video Game, with the possibility of retooling the index through TLP being also brought under discussion
.
- Books on Trope: A new Tropology/ namespace is being discussed for this page (as well as Sorting Algorithm of Tropes and other such pages) elsewhere. The index may get linked in the floatbox in Metafiction Demanded This Index for the time being.
- And last but not least Works by Subject as a whole: After clean-up is done, is it worth keeping the index around?
In case Works by Subject gets cut, each section may get merged
with different indices (e.g. "Stock Characters" with Stock Characters and/or Genres, "Settings" with Settings and "Themes" Queer Media with Genres, with the other sections being addressed in pending discussions).
Indices not discussed: Biker Media, Conspiracy Thriller, Criminal Procedural, Detective Drama, Gangster Fiction, Government Procedural, Law Procedural, Police Procedural and Spy Fiction. Either there's nothing to do with these indices, or they may need some further discussion.
- Samurai Stories: Determined to be redundant with Jidaigeki, Bushido Index, Samurai, Western Samurai, Everything's Better with Samurai, and Samurai Cowboy. Was cut.
- Shark Stories: Determined to be redundant with Threatening Shark. Was redirected to Sea Stories.
- Bovine Fiction, Bug Works, Canine Fiction, Elephantine Fiction, Equine Fiction and Feline Fiction: Cut.
- Dinosaur Media: Merged with Caveman Media with a new Settings index (under Works Set in Prehistory) being created.
- Alien Works, Angel Works, Deity Fiction, Demon Works, Dragon Works, Elf Works, Fairy Fiction, Genie Works, Ghost Fiction, Goblin Works, Leprechaun Fiction, Mermaid Media, Monster Media, Mummy Media, Mutant Media, Robot and A.I. Works, Toy Tales, Troll Tales, Unicorn Works, Werebeast Works, Werewolf Works, Youkai Works and Zombie Stories: Cut and redirected to relevant tropes and trope indices.
- Dolls: Moved to MediaNotes.Dolls.
- Clown Media, Ninja Fiction, Pirate Stories, Princess Stories, Psychic Stories, and Witch Works: Cut and redirected to relevant tropes and trope indices.
- CrimeAndPunishmentSeries.Detective Drama: Merged into Detective Drama.
- Spy Literature: Merged into SpyFiction.Literature.
- Ancient Rome: Moved to UsefulNotes.Ancient Rome.
- Mars Media: Redirected to UsefulNotes.Mars.
- Crossover Works: Merged with Crossover.
- Ballet: The index marker was moved up to only cover the trope section.
- Works Set in Prehistory, MediaNotes.The French Revolution In Fiction, MediaNotes.The Napoleonic Era In Fiction, Works Set in World War I, Works Set in World War II and WorksSetInWorldWarII.The Holocaust In Media: Moved to Historical Fiction subpages.
- Child Care and Babysitting Stories, Cooking Stories, Immortality Works, Music Stories, Time Travel Tales and Transformation Fiction: Cut and redirected to appropriate tropes and indices.
The index Works by Subject was ostensibly created in order to house existing indices of works with significant commonalities in subject matter and themes. These indices were previously listed on Genres; however, the argument was made that many, such as Queer Media and Asian-American Media, did not actually meet the definition of a Genre.
Since then, as discussed in this Wiki Talk thread
, a number of indexes went through the Trope Launch Pad whose definitions can largely be boiled down to "work prominently includes 'x' eponymous thing in it", which has a couple of problems:
- It contributes to Index Bloat on the wiki, i.e. overly long blocks of indices that could potentially cause the page's indexing to break altogether.
- There is concern that many of these indices are essentially an end run around the Trope Repair Shop's ongoing cleanup of tropes on what was formerly Everything's Better With Indexes (now Garnishing the Story).
Largely prompted by a Troper Critical Mass on the since-discarded TLP for Ursine Fiction
, the thread previously voted to impose a moratorium on new Works About "X" Indexes. We have previously removed Samurai Stories and Shark Storiesnote as redundant to existing tropes, and there is a lot of agreement to do the same to the entire "Animal Fiction" category; however, we have since agreed to create a thread to deal with the entirety of Works by Subject in one swoop.
Options proposed in Wiki Talk:
- Cull redundant or otherwise unnecessary Works by Subject indexes, cutting or merging them into other indexes (as we did with Samurai Stories and Shark Stories)
- Merge Works by Subject into Genres (not mutually exclusive with cleanup of unnecessary indices).
Edited by JustaUsername on Oct 18th 2025 at 7:52:12 PM
I looked at the history for Works by Subject and it was another editor who put Dolls in that category
in the first place, not me when I was indexing. I put it on Useful Notes
and Toy Tropes
(among others). Not that it matters now, but I think that ought to be noted.
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Agreed.
I still think it may well be worth keeping as a category of toys.
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I'm not 100% opposed, but what would that even look like that isn't already Mons? Genuinely asking here, because Mons pretty much already says everything that a genre page would, it just doesn't index and that personally isn't enough to justify the creation of another page IMO. (And on a much smaller note, Mons Series is a slightly non-indicative name for an index that includes comics, video games, and movies.)
I wonder if something that makes a difference as to something being a genre is whether on not it only involves one thing. For example, even if indexes under “non-human beings” are redundant with the various tropes about said beings, you can’t reduce “sci-fi” or “fantasy” to one thing or one trope as easily.
Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!![]()
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It 100% should be kept as a category of toys, hence why it's on the Toys page. There's several other toys that have an article on here but as they weren't listed on the Works by Subject Page, they weren't included in this TRS. Someone brought up Teddy Bear; the page has a listing of media with bears in it as well as tropes applied to it but it doesn't index and so wasn't listed on the Works By Subject page.
Edited by Nethilia on Oct 23rd 2024 at 10:54:19 AM
I focus on obscure 1990s or graphic Middle Grade Literature novels and dolls. (She or zie, not they.)Anyone else has more thoughts about what amathieu13 suggested
?
Edited by StalkerGamer on Oct 25th 2024 at 6:12:03 AM
I missed the beginning of this thread even though I was waiting for it since I have some thoughts on the Works by Subject indexes. The main problem is that people are indexing works that include X, which I agree is wrong, but works about X could work as categories of media. The rule of thumb should be: If you can remove the X, or replace it with a different type of character or thing without changing the main plot or central premise, then the work isn't X Media. However, it sounds like the current consensus is that those categories are too broad even if we cut the "there's an X" examples.
LGBT Representation in Media: I'm opposed to it being an index for works, for the reasons in the above paragraph (and only those reasons) - if a work features LGBT characters or themes prominently enough to be worth indexing, then it should fit into the Queer Media or Queer Romance indexes. I get why we have the index, but LGBT representation (or representation in general) is a trope (or supertrope), not index. Otherwise, we're just falling back into saying "this character is X" in a chairsy way, which is the reason we cut many LGBT tropes in the first place. I have some ideas for tropes about the different ways or reasons for a work to include representation, such as Token Queer, Queer Episode, and some kind of Garnishing the Story trope.
For the "Animal Media" indexes, I think that there could be a Pet Care Stories index for works where the core premise is the protagonist caring for one or more pets. Among Canine and Feline Fiction, I think that's the most salvageable idea.
For the "Non-Human Creatures" indexes, I'm split. Since they don't exist in real life, basing an entire work around these creatures is more significant that just having a cat, dog, or elephant, even if there are many vastly different ways to write such works. Of course, works where the creatures aren't central to the work's premise should be cut. (For example, ''Hotel Transylvania does not belong under Werewolf Works and Mummy Media, since the werewolves and mummy are just supporting characters.) If we just nuke the section, I think the redirects/disambiguations should be for more plot or genre-centric tropes. For example, Alien Invasion for Alien Works, and Zombie Apocalypse for Zombie Stories, instead of the Our Monsters Are Different tropes.
For LGBT Representation in Media, is the purpose of the index to track said representation? I thought so at first, but I could be wrong.
Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!![]()
If you can remove the X, or replace it with a different type of character or thing without changing the main plot or central premise, then the work isn't X Media.
This is why I put on the Dolls page that if a doll in the media is merely a prop and could be replaced with, say, a lamp, it's not Doll Media. It was an effort to combat it merely being a listing of things that have a doll being lugged around or that have a flimsy tie to said plot.
I focus on obscure 1990s or graphic Middle Grade Literature novels and dolls. (She or zie, not they.)Have we said all we needed in order to get a crowner organized? Not sure if I'm keen on merging the current crop of indices either unless they're above 5000 inbounds. I'm still sure that a legitimate genre page can be formed for horror works that involve a zombie apocalypse.
Also
Monster Movies for works like what prominently features kaiju.
Edited by GrafVonTirol on Oct 26th 2024 at 12:09:57 PM
I do think Monster Movie is recognized as a genre
alongside Disaster Movie, though it's not limited to kaiju.
Edited by Amonimus on Oct 27th 2024 at 11:48:47 AM
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupMonster Movie is a good idea, but should the page be separated in sub-pages (like for example Giant Monster Movie) to not mistake it for a page for all movies with monsters in them?
Bumping. Shall we start a crowner for:
- Cutting the pages under the Other Non-Humans section in the Characters and Creatures folder, except Dolls for reworking to Media Notes.
- Merging said pages as suggested by amathieu13
- ... anything else I'm missing aside from maybe repurposing a few pages?
The suggestion
of Someoneman should be considered too
And I don't think we can apply the same solution to all creature indexes. I think Vampire Fiction and Alien Stories can go with keep&clean, or with retooling into genre.
I think those should all be redirected to the respective Our Monsters Are Different pages, not cut outright. I don't think
Vampire Fiction is keepable as-is, but particular flavors can be turned into genre pages a la Vampire Detective Series, so we should preserve that one in a sandbox.
Mons Series is also the closest to being a genre index. It can be kept too.
Yeah, it sounds like more discussion is needed in the sections of:
- which indexes are actually genres to keep
- which are best moved under their respective creature categories
- which are of little to no use and should be terminated
- which have mixed use and should be redirected to other categories (like Dolls)
So far, what I can see:
- Zombie Stories being reworked into a more specific Zombie Horror page.
- Kaiju Works being reworked into a Monster Film genre, which includes kaiju.
- Dolls being converted into MediaNotes.Dolls.
- As pointed out, there's plenty of Mons series to make a legitimate genre out of.
- Vampire Fiction can be reworked by the looks of it
- I have little use for most of the rest.
Edited by GrafVonTirol on Oct 30th 2024 at 11:56:42 AM
We should explicitly list those that are "of no use" and crowner them. Rewriting the others would need someone to put an effort into it.
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupWhat’s the opinion on School Stories? It would leave a big gap if cut given the lack of other categories for lots of teen media as far as I know.
Crown Description:
Several indexes contained within the Works By Subject index have been identified as having issues, with a key one being their lack of purpose as indexes. This crowner will determine what to do with several of the items on this index. Discussion starting here

I think Mons Series should stay since it's an established genre like Magical Girl Genre Index and predates the whole "works by subject" index to begin with.
Edited by ninjamitsuki2 on Oct 23rd 2024 at 10:06:01 AM
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