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Needs Help: Works By Subject, Mons Series, Superhero Stories, Vampire Fiction, Kaiju Works, Mecha Show, Mecha Game

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Indices not discussed: Biker Media, Conspiracy Thriller, Criminal Procedural, Detective Drama, Gangster Fiction, Government Procedural, Law Procedural, Police Procedural and Spy Fiction. Either there's nothing to do with these indices, or they may need some further discussion.

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    Original OP 

The index Works by Subject was ostensibly created in order to house existing indices of works with significant commonalities in subject matter and themes. These indices were previously listed on Genres; however, the argument was made that many, such as Queer Media and Asian-American Media, did not actually meet the definition of a Genre.

Since then, as discussed in this Wiki Talk thread, a number of indexes went through the Trope Launch Pad whose definitions can largely be boiled down to "work prominently includes 'x' eponymous thing in it", which has a couple of problems:

Largely prompted by a Troper Critical Mass on the since-discarded TLP for Ursine Fiction, the thread previously voted to impose a moratorium on new Works About "X" Indexes. We have previously removed Samurai Stories and Shark Storiesnote  as redundant to existing tropes, and there is a lot of agreement to do the same to the entire "Animal Fiction" category; however, we have since agreed to create a thread to deal with the entirety of Works by Subject in one swoop.

Options proposed in Wiki Talk:

TLP Archive for Works By Subject

Edited by JustaUsername on Oct 18th 2025 at 7:52:12 PM

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#251: Nov 8th 2024 at 8:32:12 PM

[up][up][up]Based on the number of inbounds, we could make Robot and A.I. Works a disambig instead.

Trust me, I'm an engineer!
Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#252: Nov 8th 2024 at 8:46:28 PM

[up][up] Besides the three you mention, some of the indexes under “Other Stock Characters” are ones I’d give a chance, like Spy Fiction and Superhero Stories, though I’m not sure about keeping all the indexes on that list.

Edited by Lymantria on Nov 8th 2024 at 11:46:35 AM

Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#253: Nov 8th 2024 at 9:12:30 PM

[up]Agreed, both are pretty recognizable genres.

Trust me, I'm an engineer!
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#254: Nov 8th 2024 at 9:13:55 PM

What would go on a Robot and A.I. Works Disambig that isn't covered by the stuff on Robot Roll Call?

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 8th 2024 at 12:14:03 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
EmperorAI Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms from The Cyber Space (Private) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms
#255: Nov 9th 2024 at 12:09:16 AM

What's a disambig page? Also, isn't Robot Roll Call for the tropes related for robots and AI while Robot and A.I. Works for any works that has robots as main, pivotal and supportive roles? Aren't they already doing their functions correctly?

Edited by EmperorAI on Nov 9th 2024 at 9:10:38 PM

Hello there! I am just a guy who likes robots and A.I. in fiction! Robot Supremacy.
Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#256: Nov 9th 2024 at 12:33:08 AM

[up] To see examples of disambiguation pages, click on the links on the Ambiguity Index. And yes, what you said is the indexes’ intended purpose, but some people thought the latter index was unnecessary.

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StalkerGamer That's All, Folks! Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Love is an open door
#257: Nov 9th 2024 at 2:29:47 AM

Sorry if it is an out of focus question, but what are inbounds ?

FSharp Resisting a rest Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: I wanna know what love is
#258: Nov 9th 2024 at 2:44:04 AM

The Related page for Robot and A.I. Works says "Since January 1, 2012 this article has brought 2,701 people to the wiki from non-search engine links," but that's a mouthful so most people would say it has 2,701 inbounds.

I don't just Wiki Talk the talk. I Wiki Walk the walk.
EmperorAI Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms from The Cyber Space (Private) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms
#259: Nov 9th 2024 at 3:41:21 AM

[up][up][up]why are people saying Robot and A.I. Works is unnecessary??? One is for tropes and the other one is for works. Both are necessary components. Who the hell is saying Robot and A.I. Works is unnecesarry???

Edited by EmperorAI on Nov 9th 2024 at 12:41:58 PM

Hello there! I am just a guy who likes robots and A.I. in fiction! Robot Supremacy.
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#260: Nov 9th 2024 at 5:10:16 AM

[up]I'm going to repost what I said a few pages back:

Yeah, I feel like we're relitigating the conversation that was had extensively, over the course of two years, in the other thread. If you didn't take part in that convo and haven't given it a read before (no judgment, just trying to make sure everyone's on the same page), extremely recommend doing so now because we've been over these points before

Disagreeing with the argument is fine, but to have an actual discussion/debate on the topic, you have to actually take the time to know the argument, rather than coming on page 10 of on ongoing discussion in incredulity. For the briefest explanation (and this is only my argument, several other folks have joined in over the years so I recommend reading more of the threads to get a more holistic picture of the different arguments), I'll link what I said from the other thread:

If a genre can credibly be made from, say Vampire Fiction, then my argument is it is better to have a genre page over these indices. My point has been from the get go that these indices either do not fulfill the purpose people have identified (i.e. as a way to collect and explain the different ways X is represented across works) considering that there is often no consistent portrayal across the works listed or on the occasions that there are meaningful patterns to be shown, these indices function as a worse genre page/trope page, because they don't provide any other information other than a list.

When it comes to Robot and A.I. Works, while I'm personally not a fan of disambiguating indices since most indices aren't intended to be wicked to anyways, given that it is lumping together Robot, Artificial Intelligence, and Cyborg, I think disambiging with those pages and perhaps Robot Roll Call would be best

I do think there are more salvageable pages in this chunk than the previous two given that some are already recognizable genres and are written like genre pages: Spy Fiction, Criminal Procedural, Police Procedural, and Detective Drama IMO (though Detective Drama's page type is Trope even though it's functioning as an index since none of the "examples" have any context) can stay as is, with a once over.

Superhero Stories and Gangster Fiction I also think cover an actual genre, but both need to have a much more fleshed out description as to what that genre is to be kept. Mecha Show, Magical Girl Genre Index, and Mons Series, I've already said probably fall in the same camp.

For the rest, not so much. Clown Media, Ninja Fiction, Princess Stories, Psychic Stories, Pirate Stories, and Witch Works are all pretty representative of the issues with these kinds of pages and imo should be merged/redirected to the relevant trope/genre pages (Clown Tropes, Ninja, Princess Protagonist, Psychic Powers, Pirate (or for an actual genre, Swashbuckler), Our Witches Are Different). Biker Media also isn't an actual genre, but this page has some ideas on it that seem like they can be spun out into tropes like Biker Rebel (which I also think would solve the issue of Badass Biker being of questionable tropeworthiness, like all other Badass X tropes) or Motorcycles Are Freedom.

Edited by amathieu13 on Nov 10th 2024 at 4:43:57 AM

EmperorAI Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms from The Cyber Space (Private) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms
#261: Nov 9th 2024 at 8:14:18 AM

So what do you guys plan to do with the Robot and A.I. Works page? Take it all into the Robot Roll Call page? Divide it into other pages? Outright delete it and make another index from it?

Also, sorry if I sound aggressive, it's just that the Robot and A.I. Works page is one of my most favorite pages and one of the my most worked ones, the idea of the page disappearing due to some description errors really upset me for a moment

Edited by EmperorAI on Nov 9th 2024 at 5:20:58 PM

Hello there! I am just a guy who likes robots and A.I. in fiction! Robot Supremacy.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#262: Nov 9th 2024 at 8:22:15 AM

Mm, for a trope launched just three years ago 2000+ inbounds is quite a lot. And Robot, Artificial Intelligence and Cyborg aren't indexes that cover "main characters or playing a critical role in the story", you'd get buried under example text and works where they aren't this important.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
EmperorAI Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms from The Cyber Space (Private) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms
#263: Nov 9th 2024 at 8:32:21 AM

One, eh not really, I have been working on the page since last year because I joined the wiki last december, and two, if the problem is too many texts and works where they while appearing aren't important to the story then yeah, I guess making new pages for works where they are actually critical would be ideal thing to do

Edited by EmperorAI on Nov 9th 2024 at 5:32:41 PM

Hello there! I am just a guy who likes robots and A.I. in fiction! Robot Supremacy.
animuacid The girl of the window from Astyr residence in Lilysthia's grounds Since: Jan, 2024 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
The girl of the window
#264: Nov 9th 2024 at 9:45:19 AM

Superhero Stories has quite a few medium subpages. I've looked at SuperheroStories.Anime And Manga and it needs some cleaning. There are bunch of Magical Girl shows like Pretty Cure and Puella Magi Madoka Magica that should be removed with extreme prejudice. And others are questionable like Fate/stay night and A Certain Magical Index. From what I know, these couple of works don't have much to do with superheroes.

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
costanton11 Since: Mar, 2016
#266: Nov 9th 2024 at 10:32:06 AM

I noticed that Railroad Index, in addition to listing train related tropes, also has a section for works prominently featuring trains.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#267: Nov 9th 2024 at 10:48:09 AM

Going back to Robot and A.I. Works, the problem is indeed that it's bloated, and that the concept stretches so far as to be meaningless. I mean, it includes works like The Sims 4, just because in a single pack you can build a robot. I'd hardly call that an example of robots "playing main characters or playing a critical role in the story". There's plenty of examples in the Western Animation folder solely because a single robotic character is recurring, which also seems to stretch what "main or critical" means. I'm sure there are other examples I haven't caught due to not knowing the works well, too.

This is exactly why I don't put much stock into the idea of these indexes. They don't actually tell you anything about the stories indexed in them, and have no real connections between them aside from the presence of one of these creatures or characters. Even if they were more restrictive though (which is pretty hard since clearly people have different ideas already on what's major enough to be mentioned), I guess I just fail to see the point when all the index tells you is that "this work has a robot or AI in it". That's why I (and other tropers, obviously) find the tropes more useful, since they tell you what the robot is or does and how they're used.

But then again, I've never been the type of person who's ever cared to look at one of these indexes to find new works; I genuinely don't see the appeal others clearly do, because I'm not drawn to specific subject matters the way others are.

But I'm not sure how this one can really be salvaged. Even if we made it more restrictive, it still suffers the same issues as the other "creature / animal" indexes did.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#268: Nov 9th 2024 at 10:59:19 AM

Artificial Intelligence and Cyborg can substitute half of the index. Robot is an exampleless supertrope, and if it's fine is not a topic for this thread.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#269: Nov 9th 2024 at 11:13:05 AM

[up]Robot is being discussed as something to add to a possible disambig page. Even if it can't take examples, it still discusses how robots show up in works, which is what people have said is the intended purpose of these indices. It should def be included in the discussion, imo.

[up]x7 Again, the repeated argument of "those tropes include works where the X isn't the main character or have an important role, though" is moot when these indices also already include those kinds of works. In practice they are functionally equivalent, except the indices are worse than the trope pages as they don't require explanations for works that tells you how each work handles the X in question.

Edited by amathieu13 on Nov 9th 2024 at 11:37:52 AM

EmperorAI Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms from The Cyber Space (Private) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms
#270: Nov 9th 2024 at 1:17:15 PM

My main solution for this would be turn the Robot into both the tropes of robots and the works where robots are main, critical and/or supportive. I should also say that just because there is a robot, doesn't qualify it to be there. Only if the robot is truly a main, critical and/or supportive.

Also, now that you mention The Sims, yeah deleting those from the page

Hello there! I am just a guy who likes robots and A.I. in fiction! Robot Supremacy.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#271: Nov 9th 2024 at 1:18:23 PM

You fail to realize how little your solution actually changes anything. All you'd be doing is moving the index from one link to another. It doesn't address the underlying concerns. Robot and A.I. Works is already supposed to be specifically for when they're "main or important characters" — the fact of the matter is, this is a vague and somewhat arbitrary line to draw.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 9th 2024 at 4:19:31 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
EmperorAI Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms from The Cyber Space (Private) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms
#272: Nov 9th 2024 at 1:20:02 PM

Hmmm, right. I guess it all ends with deleting some works out huh?

Edited by EmperorAI on Nov 9th 2024 at 10:20:38 AM

Hello there! I am just a guy who likes robots and A.I. in fiction! Robot Supremacy.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#273: Nov 9th 2024 at 1:21:55 PM

I mean, my solution is the same as what we've been doing with the other indexes — cut, and rely on the more useful tropes to cover the bases.

I know you want to keep this in some form, but I'm not seeing a way to salvage it. Even if we manage to restrict it properly, it'd still just be a list of otherwise unrelated works, without conveying how the presence of a robot or AI actually impacts the story. Like I said in my post above, there's a reason I prefer the tropes to the indexes; I know the tropes don't serve the same purpose, but I find their purpose far more useful.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 9th 2024 at 4:22:38 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
EmperorAI Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms from The Cyber Space (Private) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Emperor of all Machines and Artificial Lifeforms
#274: Nov 9th 2024 at 1:22:12 PM

I mean we could always add "supportive role" as an adding but thay would also make things too large. A solution to this would be simply making different pages for different works so that there isn't just one page containing too many works but even then, it would end up postponing the innevitable and just let people add stuff that doesn't really match.

So yeah, you're right

Edited by EmperorAI on Nov 9th 2024 at 10:28:21 AM

Hello there! I am just a guy who likes robots and A.I. in fiction! Robot Supremacy.
Filip04 Since: Nov, 2023
#275: Nov 9th 2024 at 2:37:47 PM

[1] Can my "Ice Age Tales" work as redirect too?

5th Sep '25 5:46:56 PM

Crown Description:

Several indexes contained within the Works By Subject index have been identified as having issues, with a key one being their lack of purpose as indexes. This crowner will determine what to do with several of the items on this index. Discussion starting here

Total posts: 693
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