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Needs Help: Works By Subject, Mons Series, Superhero Stories, Vampire Fiction, Kaiju Works, Mecha Show, Mecha Game

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    Original OP 

The index Works by Subject was ostensibly created in order to house existing indices of works with significant commonalities in subject matter and themes. These indices were previously listed on Genres; however, the argument was made that many, such as Queer Media and Asian-American Media, did not actually meet the definition of a Genre.

Since then, as discussed in this Wiki Talk thread, a number of indexes went through the Trope Launch Pad whose definitions can largely be boiled down to "work prominently includes 'x' eponymous thing in it", which has a couple of problems:

Largely prompted by a Troper Critical Mass on the since-discarded TLP for Ursine Fiction, the thread previously voted to impose a moratorium on new Works About "X" Indexes. We have previously removed Samurai Stories and Shark Storiesnote  as redundant to existing tropes, and there is a lot of agreement to do the same to the entire "Animal Fiction" category; however, we have since agreed to create a thread to deal with the entirety of Works by Subject in one swoop.

Options proposed in Wiki Talk:

TLP Archive for Works By Subject

Edited by JustaUsername on Oct 18th 2025 at 7:52:12 PM

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#226: Nov 4th 2024 at 1:35:46 PM

[up]Once again, that's already been adjudicated. We're not keeping most of these, for reasons that have already been explained at length.

Old crowner archived. New crowner hooked.

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themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
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#227: Nov 4th 2024 at 1:44:38 PM

Question — should we edit the OP to summarize each of the Works by Subject actions that have already been voted on and taken? So that we know which indexes have already been taken care of?

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WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
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#228: Nov 4th 2024 at 1:45:04 PM

Only a mod can do that, sadly. (Or the OP themselves)

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themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
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#229: Nov 4th 2024 at 1:46:38 PM

[up] Got it.

~Justa Username (or a mod) — if a list of actions already taken were put together, would you be willing to edit the OP to include it? Not yet — such a list would need to be put together — but when it happens, would that be OK?

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JustaUsername Weredragon | he/him from Melbourne, Australia Since: Jul, 2009
Weredragon | he/him
#231: Nov 4th 2024 at 3:13:19 PM

[up][up]Oh sure, just give me the actions and I'll put them on the OP post.

Some people say I'm lazy. It's hard to disagree.
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#232: Nov 4th 2024 at 4:05:27 PM

My bad, I'll just exclude that one from the crowner since it's already well underway and we aren't sure about it.

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SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#233: Nov 4th 2024 at 11:32:23 PM

Thumbed down the Our Monsters Are Different option, because it presumes that all other pages have corresponding Our Monsters Are Different pages.

The Dolls move too because that page has a different, trope-like, structure than the other pages discussed here. It may merit its own thread.

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Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#234: Nov 4th 2024 at 11:49:57 PM

Though I've upvoted anyway, I'd be more comfortable with "to equivalent Our Monsters Are Different pages" if which pages specifically were listed separately.

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Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
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#235: Nov 5th 2024 at 12:05:49 AM

Perhaps Mons Series would be for the next crowner.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Nov 5th 2024 at 3:06:02 PM

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ninjamitsuki2 Mero Mero Merorin from The Altress of Fortuna Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Mero Mero Merorin
#236: Nov 5th 2024 at 3:18:47 AM

I don't think there's really anything wrong with Mons Series. By that logic Mecha Show and Magical Girl Genre Index would have to be changed as well.

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amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#237: Nov 5th 2024 at 7:22:40 AM

[up]I mean, those are certainly on the table since they're on the index. They (along with Mons Series) all have the same related issues. The way they're currently written, at best they're redundant with the corresponding trope page. The point that "not all works that include the X are part of the X" is kind of irrelevant. Redundant =/= the same, it means performing functions similar enough as to make one of them superfluous. The examples on the Mons and Mecha pages subsume all of those on the corresponding index, making the index functionally redundant, which wouldn't necessarily be a major issue if there were clear metrics to keep the entries on the indices from morphing into the examples on the trope pages, but because the scope of these indices are ill-defined, they end up being wide and ambiguous enough to potentially include all works in the former anyways. This second point has always been one of the sticking issues of the Work by X indices as a whole and while I think there's less of an issue with bad additions that call into question the entire index as was the sitch with the Animal indices, it's still present partially because without a tighter definition for these pages, there's nothing really to stop them.

Focusing on Mecha Show for a second, by most definitions outside of this site, My Life as a Teenage Robot does not qualifynote  and neither does Kill la Kill,note , yet both are listed. We can call them improperly categorized and thus all is needed is cleanup, but the broadness of how the index is defined makes them legitimately debatable and does not prevent future "miscategorizations" from happening.

Now in the case of Mecha, Magical Girls, and possibly Mons, I do think there's a legitimate genre to be noted, but these indices are poorly describing them, which is causing the redundancy with the trope pages. If we want to use them as genre indices, we have to actually define the genre to keep the two distinct. "X in an important position" as these indices are mostly defined as is not a clear enough definition (what does "important" mean?).

And if we're redefining these pages, I personally think it'd also be a good opportunity to move them to names that actually have "Genre" in the title, seeing as both Mons Series and Mecha Show include works that are not shows or comics as "Series" and "show" implies.

[up][up][up]Yeah, I'm also surprised we didn't list out each one, tbh. That was also part of the motivation behind me listing them. At the very least, maybe linking to the post so people can better see what that entails?

Edited by amathieu13 on Nov 5th 2024 at 7:38:37 AM

Nethilia Girl Gang Disaster (she and zie) (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
Girl Gang Disaster (she and zie)
#238: Nov 5th 2024 at 7:51:49 AM

Upvoted, but agree that Dolls needs a separate look and moving everything to Our Monsters are Different Pages might not be an answer. Especially if in a few years those get treated like bloated pages and this just gets shoved elsewhere.

Edited by Nethilia on Nov 5th 2024 at 7:52:01 AM

I focus on obscure 1990s or graphic Middle Grade Literature novels and dolls. (She or zie, not they.)
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#239: Nov 5th 2024 at 4:44:01 PM

Just to be clear, Mecha Show and Magical Girl Genre Index are part of the next section: they're not affected by the current crowner.

[down]It's part of the current section, but I retroactively excluded it from the current crowner because I goofed when I was drafting it and forgot we still hadn't quite decided how to handle it.

Edited by StarSword on Nov 5th 2024 at 10:42:29 AM

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Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#240: Nov 5th 2024 at 5:11:15 PM

[up]Is Mons Series part of that section too? I’d be hesitant to delete it or the two other indexes you mentioned.

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JustaUsername Weredragon | he/him from Melbourne, Australia Since: Jul, 2009
Weredragon | he/him
#241: Nov 6th 2024 at 3:20:15 PM

Well, I changed the OP after I discovered the old crowner and what actions were approved.

Some people say I'm lazy. It's hard to disagree.
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
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#242: Nov 6th 2024 at 3:29:15 PM

[up] Thank you! I was going to get to it myself but I was busy — I apologize about that.

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StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#243: Nov 8th 2024 at 2:31:16 PM

Calling the crowner. All options adopted.

Mons Series is still on the table, and I think there's an argument to be made that it can be reasonably placed on Genres if the criteria are tightened.

[down]Yes, that's we were copying some of them to a Sandbox for sorting instead of redirecting.

Edited by StarSword on Nov 8th 2024 at 5:33:14 AM

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Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#244: Nov 8th 2024 at 2:32:12 PM

Would something like Monster Movie still be doable?

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Nethilia Girl Gang Disaster (she and zie) (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
Girl Gang Disaster (she and zie)
#245: Nov 8th 2024 at 4:25:26 PM

Should Dolls go ahead and be moved or is there anything else that needs to be done? ~SeptimusHeap mentioned possible further discussion.

I focus on obscure 1990s or graphic Middle Grade Literature novels and dolls. (She or zie, not they.)
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#246: Nov 8th 2024 at 6:13:36 PM

I just finished sorting out Works Set in Prehistory in the Trope Launch Pad. Cutting the sandbox.

I was going to launch Sunday, but since this is a TRS project am I allowed to just go ahead and launch?

Edited by StarSword on Nov 8th 2024 at 9:21:01 AM

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JustaUsername Weredragon | he/him from Melbourne, Australia Since: Jul, 2009
Weredragon | he/him
#247: Nov 8th 2024 at 6:23:30 PM

With Crowner closed, I added all the options.

Some people say I'm lazy. It's hard to disagree.
Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#248: Nov 8th 2024 at 6:25:35 PM

I’m not sure all the creature indexes have associated Our Monsters Are Different indexes, like Robot and A.I. Works- there was once Our Robots are Non-standard, but it now redirects to Robot.

Anyway, what should be on the next crowner?

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amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#249: Nov 8th 2024 at 6:36:31 PM

[up]Pretty sure that always included equivalent pages even if they didn't use the Our Monsters Are Different format, like Mummy for Mummy Media. At the very least, I included such pages in my suggestion post.

StalkerGamer That's All, Folks! Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Love is an open door
#250: Nov 8th 2024 at 6:39:30 PM

As ~StarSword stated here we should discuss about what to do with Mons Series, Mecha Show and Magical Girl Genre Index, as well the rest of Other Stock Characters section

Edited by StalkerGamer on Nov 8th 2024 at 11:40:36 AM

5th Sep '25 5:46:56 PM

Crown Description:

Several indexes contained within the Works By Subject index have been identified as having issues, with a key one being their lack of purpose as indexes. This crowner will determine what to do with several of the items on this index. Discussion starting here

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