I think you're right; there's definitely a distinction between Upper-Class Twit and Rich Bitch (disregarding gender).
Upper-Class Twit is kind of a semi-Dead Horse Trope: if you see it in modern works, it'll be either Historical Fiction or intended to show that the character is stuck in the past. Cases in point: Bertie Wooster in Jeeves and Wooster (I know the books were contemporary fiction, but the series wasn't); George in the various Blackadder incarnations.
It's an overwhelmingly British trope (well, I'm sure other cultures have their own variants), strongly tied to the kind of hereditary nobility that moved out of relevance through the first half of the 20th century and conclusively ended with the Second World War. The Upper-Class Twit is moronic and useless, but not usually malicious.
(I can actually think of one villainous example, but that character's more evil actions were hidden from view for most of the work, with his Upper-Class Twit-ness being all on the surface.)
Edited by DoktorvonEurotrash on Oct 6th 2024 at 5:58:28 AM
Yeah, to quote a headline about Hugo Horton in The Vicar of Dibley, he's "Rich as Croesus, Thick as Shit". It's meant to be about rich and/or Blue Blooded eccentrics or idiots, or in other words Rich Idiot With No Day Job minus the secret double life as a superhero or whatever.
Edited by StarSword on Oct 6th 2024 at 11:42:01 AM
Trust me, I'm an engineer!So, it does seem like people are either misunderstanding how it relates to Rich Bitch or they just really want a spot to put their "rich asshole" entries then, and I kinda get it since it's a pretty weird gap right now, unless the trend of rich men and boys behaving this way wasn't as popular before or something...
Anyway, I can't check wicks or anything until I'm off on Tuesday. Before that though do we think the current definition is worth keeping as a separate concept? I think it's perfectly valid as a trope, but we need a solution here.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallReading the examples on the page, I'm not seeing much misuse.
If there is some confusion, it may be that an Upper-Class Twit, when given any sort of power or responsibility, will inevitably make the lives of the people below them harder - not through malice, but through not grasping why asking their servants to haul the Twit's bathtub cross-country so they can take proper baths while on the road might be a burden.
I'm not talking about on page examples at all. I'm talking about wicks. Almost every wick I find in the wild is misuse. On page examples are generally more likely to be correct just because the description is more readily available; it's why we ignore it for wick checks.
Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 6th 2024 at 1:35:28 PM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
If most of the off-page use is misuse, definitely do a wick check — and if the results turn out bad, I could see an argument for a rename. I don't think "Upper-Class Twit" is particularly indicative of the trope, at least to me as an American - "twit" isn't a word that gets used a lot in the U.S. (And I am aware this trope is very British, hence the name — but I feel like I've seen it be used outside the U.K. and that the name may be contributing. Correct me if I'm wrong, British tropers — does "twit" have connotations beyond just "stupid"?) Maybe something like Rich Useless Fool or Rich And Useless? (Or a better name — I'm not too good at names.)
EDIT: Sandbox.Upper Class Twit Wick Check if anyone wants to give it a go. 57 wicks need to be checked.
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Oct 6th 2024 at 4:12:34 AM
Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper WallToday I actually have the time to do the check. I've been flying through them recently so I'll knock it out soon.
Setting up the sandbox. Bumped it to 58 wicks since I don't like working with odd numbers (aside from 5s) and 58 is more satisfying to me lol (Edit: aw screw it let's do a clean 60)
Lately I've been doing the "insert the list into a randomizer and pick from there" method so I'll collect the 58 wicks first, alphabetize them (because again it's satisfying) and then jump in.
Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 8th 2024 at 3:48:20 PM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallOkay, Upper Class Twit Wick Check is done. The misuse isn't as common as I thought, but it's still pretty common (oddly, it's even used for classist ladies)... As is cases where the character is described as wealthy, but they aren't described as either stupid or classist. It's used for "stupid / incompetent" pretty often, but there's also a huge ZCE pile that seems to assume you'll just know they're rich or something. Thoughts?
Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 8th 2024 at 5:27:14 AM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
If you combine the incorrect use together, it outnumbers the correct use.
I think TRS could rename it with that argument.
Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper WallYeah, maybe. Not sure what we'd do with the classist jerk examples, though. Rich Bitch technically allows both and has a Rich Bastard redirect, but it's so focused on women that it's clear people aren't aware that it accepts, well, "rich bastard" examples.
Thing is though, many of the characters in the PCE folder are described as very stupid and incompetent, just missing the context for their wealth. The misuse isn't as overwhelming if you factor this in.
Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 8th 2024 at 5:43:07 AM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallI wonder if a split argument could be entertained. Like, the “classist jerk” examples become their own trope.
Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper WallI'm not opposed to that. My mind goes to characters like Draco Malfoy, who is a classist, racist, petty bully but doesn't engage in the excessive materialism or status seeking behavior associated with Rich Bitch. Or Charlie from the Kingsman film series, who is an arrogant classist bully that eventually joins the villains, but is yet again not as outwardly rich and flashy (Charlie in particular was the reason I started this wick check, because there's an example for him and other similar characters on Film.Kingsman The Secret Service). These types of characters are snobby and aloof and cruel, but don't engage in the materialism and gold-digging associated with the female Rich Bitch
Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 8th 2024 at 6:35:54 AM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Hmm. So perhaps a TRS thread arguing for a rename + split would work then? I do still think the name is causing issues, even if this is a very British concept.
I feel like the issue is really the gendered writing of Rich Bitch and Upper-Class Twit, and more the former than the latter: the tropes being written as if the one were Always Female and the other Always Male seems to be pushing male examples of Rich Bitch to Upper-Class Twit, and I'm wondering if the reverse is also true.
Trust me, I'm an engineer!Yeah, I'm definitely convinced that Rich Bitch being so gendered is what's causing this. But I don't have a good solution for it. I'm sure that a wick check would show it being skewed female, and it feels pointless to expand and rename it. While I do think the archetypes I mentioned before are a bit different, that doesn't mean they don't count for Rich Bastard... It's just that people don't realize Rich Bastard exists, especially since Rich Bitch says that the male version is Upper-Class Twit (and vice versa). It's inherently confusing for people who want a place to put their rich male jerkasses.
Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 8th 2024 at 9:25:38 AM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall

Courtesy Link: Upper-Class Twit
Reading the description, I get the sense that it's for spoiled, ditzy, rich guys who don't contribute anything to society. Fair enough, definitely a stereotype, but most of the examples I find in the wild are more like a straighter male counterpart of Rich Bitch; that is, elitist and cruel on account of their wealth, not dumb or useless in the way the trope seems to be describing. I suspect this is the case because we don't actually have any other trope that would cover the "elitist and cruel rich guy" idea; Upper-Class Twit is described as the spear counterpart to Rich Bitch despite their differences. But I admit that I could be missing something in the description.
So, what is this meant to be? Is this yet another trope destined for TRS, or am I reading it too narrowly?
Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 5th 2024 at 2:27:29 PM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall